Nah. He misspoke. You know, like when Starmer said he had never called for us to remain in the Eurpean Medicines Agency. Geese! How many lives would that have cost?
If the West isn’t willing to go toe to toe in a shooting war with Russia, and I’m not proposing that for a minute, there is very little that can be done Russia doesn’t export many goods it exports a lot of raw materials, and China etc will buy up anything the west doesn’t, sanctions will harm the west probably more than Russia The west has been asleep at the wheel and is splintered on many levels: republican v democrat… black v white… remain v leave… right v left… NATO v federal EU vision of European army… This was lost long before it ever got started because Putin had got brains, most western politicians are incompetent charlatans, and Afghanistan made NATO look weak and pathetic
Russians have been overpaying for property in the UK for a decade, as a safe place to put their money. This used to be just luxury property, but it has diversified into things like student accommodation. It has been estimated that 10% of all London property sold in 2014 was bought with Russian money. It all just adds to the price inflation in housing and disadvantages UK citizens further down the chain. The political influence on the Conservative Party is without doubt about ensuring that these favourable conditions, that disadvantage and exploit the rest of us, remain.
Akchewally the biggest sector increase has been in commercial property (the tax breaks laws for unoccupied commercial properties/land are insane very favourable). And from someone in the VMPS* 'industry' - Russian money's been keeping that afloat for years. *Very Minor Public Schools.
This, imho, is a very interesting article: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...ine-crisis.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline I actually agree with much of what he says. The NATO expansion east was provocative in the same way the USSR were when then tried to deploy nukes in Cuba. I think he goes easy on Putin though. As he says, the real enemy of the west is the way the fledgling democracy in post communist Russia was perverted by the oligarchs, supported by many individuals and businesses in the west. Putin was also a direct consequence of that. I don't think it's as simple as blaming NATO and the west but things could certainly have been done differently in the early days of post USSR to encourage a more democratic and liberal Russia rather than continue to see it as a military threat.
Thanks. When you nationalists, right wingers, Brexiteers and republicans actually have a suggestion about what could be done or even what could have been done, be sure to let us all know. You guys are such teases. You clearly know everything, but won’t tell the rest of us. I’m on the edge of my seat!
The Russia report, how the tendrils of Russian influence have taken hold in the UK and how a lot of the report remains classified. https://westcountryvoices.co.uk/barbarians-at-the-gates-the-russia-report-and-why-it-matters/
Interesting history, thanks. Of course the recent history of Russia/Ukraine doesn’t bode well. Below a post I made early January on the ‘Films recently watched’ thread ... Stalin, Putin, dictators both ... ‘Mr Jones’ (on Amazon Prime). Can watch free on YouTube. 86% rating on RottenTomatoes Very good bio of of a young Welsh journalist in early 1930’s who interviewed Hitler and in Russia discovered and reported on Stalin’s ‘Holodomor’ deliberate genocide starvation in the Ukraine and Ukrainian speaking Russia killing an estimated 4 million. Good acting and cinematography, it won awards and gives an excellent expose of how ‘fake news’ influenced and split political opinion and actions at a time when many people wanted the socialist revolution to work and sweep across Europe .. Fake news worked then, it is still working today.. Stalin then and today Putin vs Ukraine are very much topical atm.
This is the latest stage in a long, long game. The result of two decades of gradual infiltration of British institutions by the Russian oligarchs who effectively stole the country's assets after the break-up of the Soviet Union. Russian individuals have bought up London property (inflating prices for the rest of us). Lebedev, son of a KGB official, bought the Evening Standard, employed George Osborne as editor and is now in the House of Lords. Abramovich and Usmanov have bought football clubs. Even something like Gazprom sponsoring the Champions League is part of a network of moves to exercise soft power in order to enmesh Russian political and business figures in the British system, in particular. Normalising the abnormal. And these are just the high-profile easy-to-understand examples. That's before we even get to the fact the Conservative party is awash with Russian money or ask questions about who funded Aaron Banks and Leave EU. (The fact the UK Government has no interest in even asking the question and stuck the 'Russia Report' in the bottom of a very deep draw is astonishing in itself). Whether or not Russia was partly behind it, Brexit was a massive win for Putin because it chiselled the UK off from the rest of Europe, weakening both. Britain's institutions and Government has been bought and paid for by Russia. We now have a foreign secretary on the BBC this morning saying that Russians are part of the British political system. After being told for years that the UK needed to be free from bureaucrats in Brussels it is certainly a peculiar taste of sovereignty to be told that deep Russian involvement in our institutions is absolutely normal. Ian Hislop's recent questions about MPs' second salaries the other week were extremely pertinent and apply to who funds our political parties and why they do it too.
It's really simple You Blairites / Starmerites stop poking your noses into world affairs that are nothing to do with us Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Ukraine... this is all on you They are all a series of obvious consequences from really stupid decisions made my your gang Own it
Well, I was open to hearing a spirited argument against, but if that is the best that can be mustered...
An unconvincing and I am afraid unintentionally, I assume, hypocrytical argument. Chinese and EU money is also foreign. The amount of undue EU influence, in money, strategy, access to MPs on all sides and using British tax payer money, via our EU payments, against Brexit makes even the alleged Russian influence look like a banner flown out the back of a Russian Bear five miles off the coast of Papa Stour. Leavers really didn't need any advice from the Russians in order to vote leave. Nor did the majority need Farage to tell them how to vote on the matter, though perhaps they were emboldened by him to stand up to the EU's standard MO of BS and intimidation. If the Russian money countered the enormouse EU and remainer campaign, of fear and BS, in any way, then all it did was level the playing field a little. Talking about foreign money as if the EU is not a collection of foreign powers? Absurd. And a primary reason for leavers wanting out in the first place. And what is this rubbish about hiding the Russia report? It was taken apart following the election, and the only undue influence it concluded on any British vote was, if I recall correctly, the Scottish independence referendum. Though its affect on Hilary Clinton was more damning, given that the Russia report revealed the Steele dossier was funded by a Clinton related organisation, and that came from Steele's own evidence.
You seem confused. ‘Asleep at the wheel’ you said. Now everyone is overactive, including Starmer who has never been in Government. That’s the trouble with your populist BS. It’s just a lot of hot air. And you know full well I didn’t support Blair or Bush and those imperialist adventures. Marched and protested.
To draw such direct parallels between the flawed decisions surrounding western involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan & Syria and the attempts by Putin's Russia to deny the right of Ukraine to even exist as an independent country is bizarre. The constitution of independent Ukraine includes a clear commitment to achieve eventual NATO membership. Accepting all the obvious alarm bells that will ring in the Putinverse, what is 'the West' meant to do? Tell them they have no chance because Uncle Vlad doesn't want it? Unless, of course, there are other decisions relating to the situation in Ukraine you are alluding to; if so, please share. As far as I'm aware, the lead players in the interventions in both Iraq & Afghanistan were Republican USA Presidents, so notwithstanding any justified criticism that may be levelled at 'Blairites' who joined with the USA on those ventures, your comment on that front is a little bemusing. And let's not talk about how much funding members of the current governing party receive from Russian allies of Putin. Better to (falsely & deliberately) claim some of them are 'going to be pursued' and then walk out of the Commons when you get rumbled.
If people cannot tell the difference between a mutual alliance of nations bound by common interest, geography and democracy, and the insidious insinuation of the fingers of dirty Russian and other nationalities' money along with deliberate misinformation to undermine our democracy, then they are beyond help. Also, I have to say, there's more sympathy for Russian interests than they deserve in this thread. By NATO spreading westwards, read former Eastern Bloc vassal states of Russia seeking to protect themselves against exactly what has happened this week. Those countries finally broke free from the USSR and chose through self determination to join an organisation which would help protect them from returning. They have moved westward, with many joining the EU and benefiting greatly. Obviously Russia hasn't liked this because Russia wants to control it's lesser siblings as it has for years. Putin is a dictator who only wants to preserve his status as a billionaire who has profited from the systemic abuse of Russian state resources. Trying to empathise with his views to paint NATO as the bad guys, when NATO has NOT invaded any countries, is a ludicrous apology for his tyrannical actions.
The populist nationalists never know what they would to do, always want to have their cake and eat it and shout loudly about it. This is a very difficult crisis. Precisely because of the bad past actions of Western allies, people don’t want to get caught up in a war. It’s not one of NATOs making, though it could easily exacerbate it. They also didn’t ask for the insidious influence of Russia to spread throughout finance, politics and social media. It’s benefitted far too many people who currently sit in Government. That needs to be flushed out and held on a leash until murderers are not in power in the Kremlin. This is also part of a wider reordering of World power. As Russia and China cooperate more they now have a separate ecosystem that may be able to live without our approval. They will increasingly wish to control the margins of their empires. Holding the line without fighting is going to be an art. This is a crisis that above all needs diplomacy. But by all means, populists can sit in an ivory tower of the Kremlin’s construction and slag off the EU and Biden for it if that floats their boat.
Did the Russians somehow engineer the appoinment of Liz Truss as Foreign Secretary? We have had some poor ones over recent years (including Johnson), but she has to be the worst. When her stupid "over-coached" voice comes on the radio, I have to turn the volume down.......
I don't deny Ukraine's right to exist I'm saying Putin knows the west is full of hot air and will end up doing very little He will have watched on as the US couldn't get out of Afghanistan fast enough, and said to himself if the US won't accept one more dead US soldier over Afghanistan why would the US accept a single dead US soldier over somewhere called Ukraine most US voters couldn't point to on a map He knows after Iraq US public were so war weary they weren't in the slightest bit interested in boots on the ground in Syria, and won't be the slightest bit interested in boots on the ground in Ukraine He knows sanctions will damage the west, drive up oil and gas prices, increase deficits, force banks to print money, and create further inflation which will be a disaster after covid was allowed to wreck everyone's economies; he knows the finance ministers in the west know this which is why sanctions have been pathetic Starmer + co calling for more severe sanctions just shows how completely divorced from reality Blairite Labour really is Putin knows the west is full of hot air, and without US action no one else in Europe is going to take action If Ukraine wants to exist they have to achieve it on their own, no one is coming to help in any way other than sending some guns This was all foreseeable a long time ago
I know exactly what to do Right now for Ukraine... nothing. Because in this instance Putin has out thought the west and already won. What we need to do is start thinking long term so we get it right next time. We need to decouple our key economy from Russia and China so that next time we can take action - eg having BP integrated with Rosneft means we can't take action without pretty much wrecking BP which would create havoc in stock markets and from there into pensions etc etc yahdeyah We need to be less reliant on imported resources, we have plenty of our own, UK industry needs to be protected; oh and by the way it's not actually green to import resources and goods from half way around the world. We need to completely reboot the foreign office so that it is fit for purpose. The failure to have not foreseen Ukraine and Afghanistan is unforgivable. We need to properly invest in security and defence, our army, navy, and air forces are pathetic. We are down to just over 100 typhoon jets. In a shooting war we would run out of aircraft by tea time on the first day and have to surrender. We spend £50B a year on defence and have almost nothing to show for it, we are wholly reliant on the US in any conflict with an enemy larger than the Isle of Wight.
Russia just closed the air space to civilian traffic along the Ukraine border, that's the starting pistol So much for diplomacy eh?
Keep an eye out for Russian interest in the Sahel, that could develop in the next few years. Reports of Russian attacks on Ukrainian transport hubs.
Reports that it's a full scale invasion. What lunacy. They might have to squabble with China for that.
Jesus it's got to be pure desperation from Putin, the West will implement full sanctions (well Boris will call Abramovich a big *******) and possibly further military action as a last resort. Very good point, hopefully we leave them to Duke it out.
I think Russian forces will prevail but it won't be easy. And then controlling such a large nation with a potential protracted guerrilla conflict is going to be costly in both lives and finance. I think Putin has made a huge mistake here. Unfortunately it is going to cost a lot of lives on both sides. Sanctions are largely irrelevant imho.
I’m sure Boris will be in Parliament at lunchtime to announce harsh sanctions against the estates of Lenin and Stalin, swingeing tariffs on Matryoshka dolls and that account holders with another Russian bank will be banned from accumulating Clubcard points on weekdays. Putin and his oligarchy won’t know what’s hit them.
