Russian troops returning back to their bases. I wonder what Putin got - a 10 year moratorium on Ukrainian NATO membership? No aid the Belarus?
At least he got his 190,000 peacekeepers mobilised in good time to protect Russia from Ukraine’s nukes and rampant corruption.
Damn fortunate that Russian troops just happened to be there when a "Ukrainian attack" happened, really.
Putin only wants to annexe the Russian speaking parts of eastern Ukraine who ally with Russia, and when he does with his peacekeepers, we can all then relax!! Just like that other nice fascist Mr Hitler in 1938, who quite rightly wanted to physically ally the German speaking Sudetenland within Czechoslovakia back to Germany with his peacekeepers. The western allies let him get away with it on the understanding that it ended his territorial ambitions. And that went well... Putin wants to reinstate a Russian Empire, feeling in particular that they were hard done by by the collapse of the USSR. If the west appeases his initial ambitions, he will feel emboldened to ask for more. He senses weakness, just as Hitler did. This will not end well and the sooner he is confronted (not militarily but by sanctions etc) the better.
It's lucky the UK can impose whatever economic sanctions we want without stepping on the toes of numerous Russian 'investors' in the UK....err governing party. Got a feeling it will have to lead to a military solution now Putin's pushed it further with claims that 'historically' Ukraine has no right to exist as an independent country. This is based on the fact that the Kievan Rus state collapsed in the 12th century, since when the regions now constituting Ukraine were controlled by the Mongol Empire, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth & the Khanate of Crimea, then by the Russian Empire & the Austro-Hungarian Empire. After the chaotic civil wars of 1917-21, Ukraine was eventually constituted as a Soviet Socialist Republic and part of the USSR and then was subjected to increasing efforts at enforced 'Russification'. In no way were all Ukrainians opposed to the German invasion of 1941. There is a long-held belief amongst hardline Russian opinion that Ukraine cannot be allowed to move too far from Russian 'influence' (ahem). They really don't trust 'Ukrainian Nationalism' or the motives of the western powers, seeing the combined expansion of NATO & EU as a deeply threatening Trojan Horse. Putin, as is common with effective dictators, is now identifying his personal (Cold War-KGB) viewpoint with the long-term good of Russia as a whole. And no-one is left within Russia able to offer any realistic counter to him. Very worrying circumstances, but not unexpected as there have been warnings about the impact of Ukraine's increasing rapprochement with 'the west' upon his actions. If the west is determined to allow Ukraine to pursue its goal of NATO membership (enshrined in its constitution), I doubt diplomacy/sanctions will be sufficient.
I wonder whether Ukraine will pull back from the current front line if Putin decides he wants the whole regions of Luhansk and Donetsk?
Putin knows he can do pretty much what he likes while doddering idiot Biden is in the White House (and, worse still, Kamala Harris waiting to take over when Joe finally keels over)
The Germans have pulled out of the new gas line deal leaving a dent of £10billion in Russia's coffers.
All the usual suspects - Farage, Daubney, Aaron Banks out furiously shilling for Putin. And I see your true colours, shining through... And sadly, Clive of The Kremlin taking his nom de plume a little too literally. Like the dinosaurs on the left of the Labour party, still looking at Russia through rose tinted specs as if it were the embodiment of the noble downtrodden worker and not a fascist kleptocracy. We'll keep the red flag flying here...
That’s about as flimsy an answer as this forum has ever seen. Ok what would they have done that would have prevented this?
I think you’re right. Trump would have already come out and thrown Ukraine under the bus and made it clear he wouldn’t commit a single US serviceman to any subsequent war. Putin would be smoking a cigar in Kiev by now.
Trump would have talked straight with Putin. Whether the outcome would have been any different is moot. But I suspect it had more chance of creating a difference than what we got. Good chance we wouldn't even be here. But it is just speculation.
What does straight talking look like in this context? Putin will clearly only accept validation of his world view.
The invasion of the two regions is a calculated gamble from Putin that will let him back down whilst gaining territory. He is relying on the fear of a full blown war to ensure that the Ukrainians don't fight back to reclaim the lost territories otherwise it will become a very expensive war for him.
Vlad, if you invade Ukraine there will be no military resistance from us and no economic sanctions. I hope that’s straight-talking enough. You are welcome at Mar a lago anytime bud. Can we keep the peeing thing between us?
To get an idea of the importance of Ukraine plays in the mythos of Russia it's name, very loosely translates, from the old Rus language, as "The Border" or "The Edge". That's why when it first regained its independence it informed the UN (who advised all its member states) that usage of "The Ukraine" was very, very offensive.
If only the Rus Vikings had done the decent thing like our lot and limited themselves to plundering abbeys, taking over half and then all of England, made Geordies & Yorkies speak all funny like and then just get absorbed like good little boys. None of this setting up aggressively successful riverine city states leading to the current situation.
Our sanctions announced look pretty feeble and give the impression of a Government, full of rhetoric, but compromised by its closeness to Russian finance. Ukraine is hardly going to be the first or last promised big things by Johnson only for him not to deliver.
Whereas the German's decision to not licence Nord Stream 2 (for now!) is quite a statement imho. Let's see how tough Biden's response is now....
I see straight talking being the type of rhetoric he was using when he was president, with China, North Korea and Russia, which didn't go down too well with his detractors, but did seem to work in avoiding conflict and escalation. It did leave him accused of pandering and appeasement on certain issues, but it also got him accused of war mongering. The one thing that was for sure though, it did not lead to new conflict, and produced the Abraham accords, which took a different approach to Israel and it's relationship with surrounding countries, by removing Hamas from the equation and focussing on direct relationships. Perhaps it is a business approach rather than a politician's approach to negotiations that made the difference. Looking for the wins for both sides, not looking to gain political power and influence from a situation. I don't know. As I say, it is speculation, based on a question asked by a poster.
Germany have stuck a tornequay on the pipeline. I understand it is suspended, not ended. Germany's action could equally be considered a bargaining chip on getting itself a better deal. Let us see how long that lasts, and how it comes out. Either way, their action will have a negative effect on gas prices all around the world. Thank heavens Boris had a plan to reduce our reliance on Russian gas, already in the pipeline (see what I done?). Mean-time, never underestimate the greed of individuals when it comes to accessing their money. I am unsure that these sanctions are as effective/ineffective as you think they are. Face value here may not count for much.
And perhaps things would have unfolded differently because of such straight talking. You would have to remember that under Trump, the situation regarding oil pipelines would already have been very different, with Putin in a much weaker position than that in which Biden has placed him, by cancelling Keystone and removing the Nord Stream sanctions. It is very false and misleading to judge Trump based on the f'd up situation Biden has created, rather than the situation he was clearly building towards before Biden and his executive orders. You would also have to consider the galvanising effect Trump refusing armed support for Ukraine may have had in a situation where the Russian economy and influence was weaker. Biden's rhetoric has clearly weakened Ukraine's own negotiating powers, with them begging Biden not to wind up the Russians, essentially blocking off negotiating avenues the Ukrainians seemed to think may have been useful. Also, Europe and other Ukraine allies may have stepped up, without the castrated leadership of the US.
Time to stop children and the sock and sandal brigade setting energy policy. Hopefully we'll now start shale gas fracking and Germany will dust off its nuclear power stations
We only get 4% of our gas from Russia, so ruining the countryside with fracking seems a little unnecessary. You have zero ambition. Go all out on renewables and make energy almost free.
