Fool. This has been scientifically proven to be impossible: [video=youtube;aqqfGXrX__8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqqfGXrX__8[/video]
This is one for the lawyers to sort out, but I doubt there will be a points deduction for this offense, unless there is legislation which states this type of offence is worthy of a possible points deduction. As far as I know, only going into administration triggers this, but falsify documentation to buy a football club is extremely serious and I'm sure the punishment would be severe. Unfortunately a club like Watford are perfect to make an example of, and this is the thing that concerns me the most. Personally I feel it would be a heavy fine, and possibly a points deduction could be waiting for us if we are relegated to the Championship.
I've tried getting a letter from my bank saying I'm good for £7m and they refused. It's harder than you think!
I don't think this will happen because as things stand I don't see us getting relegated under the Pozzo's, that will happen at some point after they sell the club. By then it would be unfair to apply a points deduction with someone else in charge, I think there's a precedent for this maybe Spurs in 1994 got their points deduction reversed.
Strange issue to get tripped up on. Were the Pozzos cash strapped at the time of the application? Did an administrator lose the run of himself/herself and, after forgetting to obtain the letter from the bank, patch together a crude copy to avoid missing a deadline? Is the journalist in the Telegraph a bitter Luton fan? The above questions should be the core terms of reference for any investigation.
Can't imagine we will get a 10 point deduction but even if we did I think we would accumulate enough points to stay up
The thing that strikes me is IF Riva saw the letter, surely he should know that Hornets Investment doesn't bank with HSBC. If he was aware the first Credit Suisse letter was rejected, and they declined to provide another one (according to the Telegraph) then surely he should have questioned this. The other thing that strikes me, is surely if you're going to forge something like this, why not use Barclay's given they're the clubs bankers?
This isn't the club. It's Hornets Investment Ltd who own the shareholding of the club. It's their bank which matters.
Judging by that statement it seems that the EFL contacted the club and then someone leaked the info to the Telegraph rather than the Telegraph telling the EFL based on a tip off. Also that fact that the club are in constructive dialogue with the EFL and they're happy with the club's course of action seems to me that this will probably blow over, possibly with a fine and no more.
Any misconduct heard by a regulatory commission can result in a points deduction (amongst other possible penalties available). The issue here is jurisdiction. The EFL have no power to deduct points from a club competing in another competition. I really think the Telegraph are trumping this up big time.
I'm aware of that, but - and I'm no master forger - if I was looking to produce a document like this I'd chose a bank which is in some way linked to the club. Rather than one which isn't. Not that it makes a huge difference either way.
We aren't getting a PL points deduction. The 'offence' is under the jurisdiction of the EFL, they literally can't deduct points from a PL side The worst case scenario is a fine, a suspended points deducted for the EFL of being kicked out of their tinpot cup next season. Even then it won't happen, the 'fraud' was committed by a third party intermediary and not by anyone in charge at the club. We also gained no benefit from the 'fraud' and it's easy to prove that the Pozzo's had 10 or 20 times the funds they needed to meet the criteria. Riva will resign and a review of internal governance will be launched Telegraph trying to sell papers and get website hits by hyping this up to save their underwhelming 'corruption in football!' Campaign. It is a load of rubbish
In the transition period of ownership the club were operating under a WWBD policy (What would Baz do?).
Reposting my comment from the other thread There is nothing to this, the people in charge weren't responsible, we had the money anyway so there was no deceit and we gained no benefit either financially or on the pitch It is a nothing story about an intermediary who ****ed up and tried to cover his arse. 'Mr X' even admits in the article it was he was forged the document Utter rubbish
If we get a points deduction, hopefully this will mean that all of the trouble makers in the dressing room will leave in January and we can field the kids in hope they'll be ready for the Championship next season.
The offence is sending them a forged letter. The purpose of the letter was to guarantee the club/owner were solvent enough for the fixtures of that coming season to be fulfilled, we did that therefore we gained nothing from this letter other than someone at the Football League ticking a box. Obviously this will be taken seriously as a forgery was sent and it does make the Football League look silly as they clearly never followed up on the letter at the time, hence why I suspect a fine would be enough. In the grand scheme of things the team never gained anything from the letter, unlike clubs who broke FFP rules for example.
Can't wait for the 'pundits' who have no knowledge of this sort of thing (not many do) to babble their way through being asked their thoughts on it on Sky Sports News and ultimately condeming us with the get out of 'if there is any wrong doing' or 'let's let the authorities take care of it and take appropiate action'. It all seems very bizarre though, the overiding question I and I imagine many is why? The funds are and were clearly there, they have invested a great deal on and off the pitch saving a club from potential oblivion. Since their time in charge they've always been very careful not to announce things until they've been ratified by the authorities such a transfer's etc and they aren't exactly very public so the extra attention and scutiny this will bring will I'm sure not go down well. The conclusions I have come to is that it is just a rogue individual who's made an error or tried to cover their tracks or it's part of a bigger picture which won't be good for us but with the Pozzo's having been in football for 30 odd years and business even longer than that I suspect they're a the former though I'm sure they've had a few dodgy deals and paperwork down the years.
Ffs, not a discussion about whether we will, I don't think there's a chance we will, but IF we did...would we survive. I think we would but not comfortably
Maybe little long term damage, but sorry, for someone this is going to be a big deal. The question is where the damage gets limited to.
If the Prem gave a points deduction for something that happened while the club was in the FL I'm pretty sure that would be unprecedented. I doubt they'd have a legal case for doing so, even if they wanted to (which I also doubt).
I would have thought that if they wanted proof of the 7M then the club would have had to either have to show statements over a period of time, or the League contact the bank themselves, if you want a work reference you usually contact the employer yourself not just let the employee bring in a letter that he/she could have written themselves.
Not picking at you directly here, but this is totally the point many are missing. The whole issue was an internal change within the club's shareholdings, not a new company purchasing the club. Seeing as Hornets Investment Holdings owned the club prior to the date where the new filing occurred I doubt there would be an issue with the finances going forward - which just asks why the hell did it happen in the first place?! As for a points deduction, highly doubt it, unless many clubs kick up a fuss but with The Telegraph out to get everyone at the moment many will keep quiet. At the moment, these are just allegations and there will be allegations made against The EFL too at this point as to why it wasn't checked thoroughly and confirmed. If The EFL have been done by this there is no reason to suggest that others down the line weren't too. It's going to be a while before this is over and with The EFL giving the club time to respond I'd guess that whilst they have said they are "investigating serious allegations" that there is going to be a positive outcome for the club.
I feel in the spirit of forgiveness, we should accept £15m from Napoli for Ighalo and draw a line under this.
The whole scheme is basically run on trust and self-declaration of compliance. The EFL aren't investigators or forensic accountants so they rely on people certifying that they meet the criteria. Unless something comes to light to call it into question the EFL will just presume everything is hunky dory. They can't really do anything else. As an entity the EFL doesn't make major profit. Most of the money raised goes to the 72 member club. Imagine the cost of constant and protracted legal disputes over someones suitability to be a director of a club...it just wouldn't be sustainable.
Does this mean that the transfer of Fessi, Vydra and Abdi could have technically happened whilst we should have been under an embargo and so were not legal?
Once the press start masturbating over the Liverpool v Spurs game tonight then all this will be is tomorrows chip wrapping. It's a non event.
Yes I see you are correct an established championship football league club should be trusted enough to provide these letters for themselves, there has to be a line drawn somewhere with the trust.
