Thatcher Dead

Dont mention the power cuts or the rubbish piling up!

 

A good attempt at twisting words, try again.

 

Well if you were one person with small income of say £10,000, but living in a large house on your own and putting very little drain on council resources, then you may have been in favour of the Poll Tax. This is because a smaller house with say, 4 higher earners, say totalling £100,000, and a far larger drain on resources, garbage collection, etc , would potentially pay far less Poll Tax. So the single person, would have liked the Poll Tax.

Bbasically the Poll Tax put the emphasis on the number of people rather than the value of the house. So despite what I said above, the Poll Tax was pretty much unworkable due to the fact that many people didn't want to admit to living anywhere so they could avoid paying it. This would obviously have caused much hassle for those that also wanted to claim benefits. That is why the political groups such as the Militant Tendancy and the Socialist Wokers Party disliked it, thereby they were instrumental in organising the so-called Poll Tax riots that caused £m's of damage and many injuries, shops and houses being looted, cars set fire, etc.

 

Another successful attempt at avoiding answering anything that is put to you. Typical socialist!

 

:yawn1: Lessons about avoiding questions from a clear right winger who's party like to send out one message and hide another. Hypocrisy at its greatest.

 

Not really - that's what you argued.

I have paraphrased, but that's the point you were making. I was simply pointing out how ludicrous it sounds and now you've possibly realised it you can try again.

 

How many guns did her goverment sell to Iraq?

 

Whose party? My party? I am not the head of communications for the Conservative party.

 

What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

Oh well, I didn't know that. If she gave your parents £188,000 through presenting them with a house that rightfully belonged to the people of the country as a whole, then that makes her fine then.

Just one question.

Now all of OUR council housing has been sold off (mainly ending up in the hands of precarious amateur private buy-to-let Rachmans, nefarious money lenders and other unsavoury types), what precisely do skint parents do for a house these days?

Or is it only YOUR parents you're interested in?

Those who say Thatcher created the greedy consumerist society are precisely right. She stated clearly "There's no such thing as society, only individuals". The message was reinforced and amplified and repeated in the loadsamoney policies that enriched a few at the expense of the many.

It's no surprise the country's turned out the way it has when all people have been told for the last few decades is "ME, ME, ME - I'm number one - ***** everyone else".

Those who talk about the unions make it sound like they're some sort of force of nature, like a hurricane or something. The unions were US. Ordinary people. Ordinary Joes. Trying to get a proper reward for a proper days work. Now the unions have been destroyed, look at working conditions now. Look at how the bosses strut and preen, cheat and humiliate, hire and fire.

If you're a normal working man who experienced working pre and post Thatcher, can you really honestly tell me that things are much better now?

 

You should write a ballad about the unions. Your heady, romantic view of their structure, practice and legacy would lend itself perfectly to verse.

 

But I do. It's just that hearing the standard left wing rhetoric which the anti-Thatcher brigade have been trotting out for 20 years sounds a bit ridiculous, so you're having a rethink. Come back to us when you've got your thoughts together.

 

Question Clive - The point in bold.... Are YOU interested in other peoples families?

 

Yes, I am on the right, but my parents were poor and socialist. My views have changed since the my teenage years when I struggled to deal with the restrictions that were put on me and my Company that I worked for, by the Unions, that I was FORCED to sign up with. Since then I have despaired at the politics of envy and jealousy by those that seem to believe that they should live off the back of the success of others, while ostensibly criticising the hand that feeds them and in many cases, the entreprenuers that have built up businesses that employ them. My opinions have been formed by my life experience. What's your excuse?

...and I laugh at those same people struggle to answer straight forward questions but who dogmatically stick with soundbites fed to them by their masters. For example, I asked you why you accuse Thatcher of covering up Hillsborough, which is a pretty serious accusation, yet you cannot give me one shread of evidence!

Your lack of knowledge demonstrates you lack of integrity, but that is exactly what I'd have expected.

 

Do you live in a bubble that makes you think as long as your family is alright that's fine? If society does well, you do well. Your family does better when other families on the whole do better. So do I care about other peoples families, yes I do.

 

She did indeed call Mandela a terrorist. As I recall, her and Dennis were huge supporters of apartheid South Africa and holidayed there regularly. Her young accolytes at the time used to wear 'Hang Mandela' t-shirts.

IamofWfc - Invented nonsense regarding the 99% tax rate. There was a 95% tax rate at one time I believe, but this only applied to unearned income such as bank interest and share dividends OVER a certain high amount. It targetted the parasites who do nothing for their money, but sit around consuming as much as they can and slandering poor working people.

As for the Poll Tax (interesting to see that even now, nobody calls it 'The Community Charge' as they insisted it must be called at the time), that meant that Lord Moneybags in his stately home paid precisely the same as the poorest worker in a bedsit.

"Why should a Duke pay more than a dustman?" said Maggie when she justified it.

It seems there are many Thatcher kids on here who would still agree with that and can't see any reason why a Duke should pay more tax than a dustman.

 

Hand on heart, 100%, I swear to you that I am as interested in the welfare of other people's kids just as much as I am my own.

Try reading the book 'The Spirit Level' which proves pretty conclusively that more equal societies are happier and more content that more divided ones.

If you really think you can live happily bolted and barred away surrounded by jewels and consumerist trinkets in splendid isolation, whilst others are starving and suffering outside your electric security gates, then you have about as much humanity in you as Thatcher.

 

The thing is most Tories have done nothing for their money, IDS for example, and even george Osborne inhereted £4mil. The majority of poor people work hard for their money, there's a very small % that don't but this is exaggerated by the govt to justify cuts to the poor, and by the daily mail..

 

First of all, i'm no Brendan Rodgers, how dare you!!!

Secondly i'm not taking comments like "Since then I have despaired at the politics of envy and jealousy by those that seem to believe that they should live off the back of the success of others, while ostensibly criticising the hand that feeds them" when they're also political propaganda from right wing parties and newspapers, especially the Daily Mail. As if all those who are poor or not in employment live off the success of others. If you're successful, it's down to your hard work, and help from the state, so why shouldn't bigger businesses pay back to the state? "Because it supports scroungers" and improves state facilities we all need. Problem is the welfare state is slated and blamed for examples such as the Philpott murders. Outrageous.

 

I do care about other families, but I'm under no illusion that my family does better because other families do well. What tosh. My family does as well as mine and my wife's hard work enables us to do. It has nothing to do with what council tenants are or aren't buying or paying or not paying.

 

Exactly, and good examples of the state are never publicised. Take J.K Rowling, she is a success story of the welfare state and has earned this country millions, and will continue to do so for years.

 

If every family in the country lives in a nice house, the housing market does well and you do well. If every family can afford to put food on the table, food prices would come down due to demand, benefiting your family. If every family goes to a good school they become more intelligent, get better jobs, the economy improves and your family does better.

But yes, what a lot of tosh!

 

Christ, Clive is a popular name these days isn't it!

Since you bothered to ask - No, I don't live in a bubble - And me asking a question to someone else means you can presume my views? WOW. I recommend you pull your cranium out off ring hole and get real.

I do care a lot about other families, I give a percentage of my salary to various UK charities on a monthly basis including Children, Mental Health, Homeless and Heart foundation.

Ironically people like yourself, Clive and others who apparently "Care" about other families then triumph in the death of someones mother/aunt/grandmother. Nice one.

 

how many fish did she sell to japan?

 

They weren't given the house, they bought it from the Council! And the Watford Labour council, would have wasted the money on funding more presure groups and appeasing the public service unions and jollies to Cuba. And the house grew in value, probably like your house in Cassiobury did.

As for the unions. Did you ever have the misfortune to have to negotiate with them in the 70's? If you think they are normal people then you obviously havn't. They were a breed apart, they spoke a different language and no comprehension of any logic whatsoever.

I worked in a postal sorting office where I had to walk 75 yards with one sack containing one letter, to load it on to a truck and then go all the way back and pick up another one. Not a sensible weight limit for health and safety, a sack limit, designed to increase the number of employees and overtime.

In a local factory I dropped an Opal Fruit wrapping paper on the floor as I pulled out my hanky to catch a sneeze. I picked up the paper and put it back in my pocket. Everything on the shop floor stopped. Until I had to take it back out of my pocket and put it back on the floor, lest I do the cleaner out of his job.

You might prefer all that rubbish Clive, but I don't.

 

Instead of giving the bones of your table to a few charidees, why not support a fair and equal society with a fully-funded comprehensive health service that doesn't need to rely on someone rattling a tin in the pub?

It seems to me that Tories love to **** people up and then ostentatiously throw them a few charidee coins to prove what splendid chaps they are.

 

And yet you've just presumed that i'm celebrating Thatchers death. I'm not, read the previous posts. Clive was for to rash and out of order on that front.

 

didn't ex watford fc chairman Elton John move from Britain after he had to pay 98% tax under a labour government. or was it 92% can't remember but hey feck, 70% 80% 90% wtf?

 

We lost around 250 men in the Falklands. Thats 250 too many & i would agree that Maggie had a big say in the circunstances that led to those deaths.. though many would say it was justified because we had had part of our Sovereign land invaded?

As for Pinochet.. well yes it was at uneasy friendship they had but that was all it was wasnt it? I beleive the Uk government never supported the human rights violations of the Pinochet regime and even if they had i'd doubt they would have had any direct involement.
Hillsborough? Well there hasnt been any admittance that Thatcher knew about any cover ups and again you cant really hang any direct guilt onto to her for the tragic loss of life. Can you?


So that leave the coal mine closures of the early to mid 80's. Youre probably right that some people took their own lives becasue of the hardship they suffered. Thats sort of thing is incalculable.
What is calculable is how many people were affected.. and you're way out. Millions? Twenty thousand coal miners lost their jobs through pit closures. Now of course that was significant when the coal industry was the main local employer. But the uK mining industry was not the Biggest industry in this country.
No way no how.

 

If they bought the house for £12k and sold it for £200k then in effect they were presented with a cheque for £188,000.

I think it more likely that the democratically elected council would have spent the money on maintaining their housing stock, looking after the elderly, the disabled and the infirm. Perhaps a few more books in the libraries or a lick of paint for the school.

As for my house on the Cassiobury, I have to break it to you that I don't live (and never have lived) on the Cassiobury. I am also not called Clive. I also don't look anything like that blurred photo I keep altering next to my name.

It's an internet user name and was meant as a satire on the poshoe picnic hamper typical Watford supporter.

 

The funny thing is Clive - I'm not a Tory - In fact I really dislike my former local Tory as he called me a c**t when I delivered his local paper late when I was only 13 years old. The point i'm making is I find it sad people show such joy in seeing someone die, especially for something that happened 30 years prior to their death.

You live your life how you want to Clive. I'm far from a "splendid chap" and I can admit that - it's not who I am and I don't pretend to be one. But at least I don't hide behind a username on an internet forum, mocking a dead politician whose left a family behind, and even state that they'd be up for disrupting a funeral just because I don't agree with their views.

As to your views on charities - I just hope you're never left in a situation where you need help and can't find it.

 

I'll hold my hands up for that, I misread. Sorry for branding you in that group.

 

i like the governmnet who cut the tax on horse racing -that was a good government unless it was blair, then it was a shyte idea and created poorer people from already poor people who needed to gamble in the first place to win money that the unions took away by losing their members jobs..

i fink BBB would make a fine Prime minister.


y all of a sudden fick nothern scum canuts are important in peoples arguments. Brian admitted he was not the messiah and dangled his willy to the gathered crowd - takes some balls to stand up for yourself.

 

Haha. You write such tosh and then, supposedly sarcastically put "what a load of tosh" at the end. Ironic.

Food prices would come down with increased demand? (not that I want people to starve just so my food bill is cheaper) and the housing situation you describe sounds suspiciously like the Blair-backed housing boom of the early 2000s, which created the current pickle we're in.