I'm not being awkward but surely we can't say that for certain? Swap Pozzo for an owner of similar wealth but without the 'model' and all that entails behind him and would we be better off, worse off or the same? I'd wager worse off given the size of our club, even with the same PL income. Not sure I agree about the playing asset value being fairly low either. I'm certainly more confident a fire sale would cover our debt than I was last year for example. There's signs of recovery at least.
I'm guessing from the content that this isn't a serious post ? Not sure why Pozzo will be that concerned about how the Balance Sheet looks other than the ability to raise debt ? Any purchaser wouldn't take the asset values of players at face value. If an asset like Pussetto was on the books at a value and was losing us money on a monthly basis then he'd need to be written down in value anyway ? My point is that I don't think for one minute the Pozzos "trade in players" to make a loss overall, nor do I think they are so obsessed in player trading that they decide not to strengthen the playing side. If you do, that's fine
My personal view is we’d be better off once in premier league but have had less chance of promotion in first place. When we are in championship Pozzo doesn’t spend a penny and uses his network to lift the squad. It’s only in the premier league he starts squandering the wealth and also restricting his spending to friendly agents.
Disagree completely with your final point. Stop being a **** with the start of your post or I’ll just ignore you.
I’m not saying there is no incompetence, clearly there is, but isn’t that just the territory? GT spoke when we were promoted on the second occasion under him about how hard it was to get players to come to Watford. Although we have more resources now, so do our competitors, all going after a much smaller pool of players than would suit the Championship. It leads to overpaying and punts. We just do a lot of that now. The defensive situation has been immensely frustrating, but on the whole I’m surprised how good a lot of our punts have looked.
Yep. Possibly. I trust them a lot less than the average fan so possibly I judge them too harshly. Dunno.
That's fine - you disagree with my final point, so you DO believe that the Pozzos trade in players to make a loss, and their obsession means they decide not to strengthen the playing side. Fine, we disagree. I don't think they are mutually exclusive and I'm sure they will have the data to show themselves that their overall profits on the Lukebakios more that cover the smaller losses on the other punts, or they simply wouldn't do it. Ignore me any time you like Jumbo, I won't be offended. I wasn't sure you were being serious when you were talking about "trinkets and baubles".
Err. No that wasn’t your final point. Your final point was that the player trading means they fail to strengthen the correct areas of our playing side. That is my view. Any incremental gains we get from Pozzo being a bit richer are wiped out by not having a balanced squad and also losses from stupid contract extensions because they have an irrational fear of not getting a fee for crocked Janmaat. Christ you are difficult to engage with.
"My point is that I don't think for one minute the Pozzos "trade in players" to make a loss overall, nor do I think they are so obsessed in player trading that they decide not to strengthen the playing side." That is exactly what I said, which you said you "completely disagree with" ???? I'm confused, do you disagree with it or not or were you talking about another point? I've no worries about us disagreeing, if we do.
The more I think about the Kalu signing the more it makes sense. Levanthal said he's a player that we've been closely following for a number of years. Bordeaux are in financial peril + he's not getting in the team - that means his stock is low and we can get him for a fee that's below his usual market rate (even if the rumoured 500k fee is rubbish and we're paying €3-4m instead). In the short term it means that we can sell Sema to Udinese (that will reduce the cost of Kalu further + may even cover it entirely depending on how Gino wants to play it) - having watched a bit of Kalu now, he's definitely an upgrade on Sema - which is a bonus whilst we wait for Sarr to recover from injury etc. In the long-term, it gives him 4-5 months to embed himself in the team + culture at the club - if the worst happens and we get relegated I imagine Sarr (imo he'll be off in the summer regardless of whether we stay up or not) + Dennis + possibly Cucho and JP will all be sold which will obviously leave us light in attack - I reckon Kalu will stay and his skillset would be v decent in the Championship. So basically, plenty of upsides, very little downsides
Zinckernagel - Pedro/Asprilla - Kalu Pedro/King A pretty decent championship front 4 if you ask me. And that’s after selling £60-70m or so of talent (Sarr, Dennis, Cucho).
“nor do I think they are so obsessed in player trading that they decide not to strengthen the playing side” Final point. I disagree with this. Tedious. Sorry busy this afternoon so you’ll need to find someone else to talk to.
Genuinely fascinated at how you arrive at £70m for those three. What is your breakdown? I’d say we get £50m absolute max.
Cucho's value is still totally unknown to me. I can't work out if he's decent or crap. Dennis scores another 5 goals this season and we're talking £30m minimum. Sarr well documented we want £40m+
I’d guess: Sarr ~ £30m, Dennis £15m - £30m (hard to be specific as the price is mostly dependent on his output this season, which we’re only halfway through) Cucho £7/8m
Player trading that makes any real meaningful positive impact on our balance sheet is only possible with two things: A) A premier league budget B) A premier league team to play players in Two examples, Sarr: £40m, only possible with a PL budget. Dennis: Was cheap but the only way to sign him was by being a PL club, he could’ve been free, but we don’t get to sign him as a championship club. Our initial success was through borrowing Udinese players too good for the championship, not player trading. Once promoted Pozzo had a big budget and bigger shop window to player trade with, this only works while still a PL club as relegation means you lose all of that + need to asset strip and sell decent players to plug the financial hole. Players like Estupinan are sold, the playing squad don’t benefit and the finances don’t benefit as it’s just plugging a hole created by relegation in the first place. If you lose your job and sell your car to pay your mortgage you’re not better off you’re worse off. So the question is what is more important, maintaining a PL squad so we can player trade and avoid a fire sale of any assets, or….?
If we are relegated and Sarr only has 2 years left: Sarr £18m plus add ons that might get us to £25m Dennis £15m Cucho £3-£5m (reckon he would stay though and we are more likely to sell JP)
Didn't we get £15m for Suarez in the championship? Surely Dennis' output already will value him more than that. Also at that price there would be a few bidders for Sarr.
Sarr for half for what we paid for him? I clearly see you think the squad is next to worthless but that is absolutely ludicrous
He has 2 years left on his contract, we’d have just been relegated and he is coming off a serious injury. I can’t see us making a profit on him at all (assuming £35m is the original purchase price). I can see teams opening at £15m and we get them up to £25m in a structured way.
Estupinan had come off 2 great years in La Liga and was considered the best left back prospect in that league. Dennis has scored 8 goals. If he doubles that by end of the season then sure, but the last month of performances don’t indicate that, especially with our overall form.
If Dennis maintains his form we're looking at a 20 goals/10 assists. If he has a poor second half of the season we're still looking at 20G/A. For a 24 year old who can comfortably player up front or on the wing surely we're looking at £20m+? Can't think of many in recent years with similar stats that would command less. Roughly £10m apparently. Potentially £13m if bonuses are activated, although he's only got 9 goals in 47 apps since leaving so not sure if they will be anytime soon.
Agree if he keeps it up. Right now with that uncertainly I don’t think my £15m is unreasonable for a team that needs to sell.
I suppose the club has got a reputation for selling players for vastly under their market value, so you might well be right
