(45) Ryan Andrews

Our best prospect since Ashley Young, has all the tools to be a Premier League right back for years to come. Absolutely top top guy off the pitch too, let's hope we can get back to a level where he can be our right back for years to come.

 

Will be sold within 2 years.

 

I think our future will depend a lot on this proposed investment/eventual takeover. In a world where that doesn't happen, I'd imagine even less than that.

 

Investment or not, at this rate he won't be here long.

 

That's very pessimistic. We might be lucky if he loses form terribly over the coming months. Fingers crossed.

 

He was pretty poor home to Bristol City, hence got taken off at half time but was better home to Stoke and brilliant yesterday!

 

Yeah, he's understandably pretty inconsistent. That alone should give us another year of him at least.

 

Some people are going a bit ott in this thread. He's not even proven himself to be a reliable first choice starter for us this season and has often been a weak link defensively. His final ball is also typically more miss than hit still.

He's got plenty of potential sure - and had a good game yesterday (in which he was afforded lots of empty space to run in to) - but he's still got lots to develop before he wouldn't be decimated at a higher level and a bigger club would make a sizeable enough offer for him that we'd consider it.

A 20 year-old Joao Pedro was near enough our best player week in week out in the Championship before Brighton came in with a sizeable offer. At the moment 19 year-old Andrews is still more often than not amongst our worst performers. Someone like Djed Spence was also playing to a higher standard at RB in the Champ before he got a PL move - and he's still found himself back in the Championship already (albeit at a fairly big club).

It's not impossible Andrews could one day play in the PL but he's still got a lot to hone, and a club like ours is the right place for him for the foreseeable.

 

The fact that his dad also came through the Watford youth system and played his first games for Watford would have probably helped us to keep him if another club did try (not sure it happened though) .

It is true that there seemed to be basically no hype around him until he first featured in the first team squad.

 

It makes you wonder if there are one or two other youngsters who might develop exponentially if given a chance. It's not as though he was the star of the reserves/youth sides. Throw a couple in, some sink some swim...and it gives a good message to the rest that they WILL get a chance here....

 

Years or weeks?

 

Given he was playing for the under 21s and signed his first professional contract while only 17 suggests the club thought highly of him.

It's pretty difficult to be a star performer at right back but in the games I saw him in (not very many) it was obvious he could defend at that level with ease. Where he fell down was his attacking play, which as modern full-backs are expected to be more than competent at may be one of the reasons he hasn't left yet.

Another reason he may have been overlooked by others was his change in position. He joined the club aged 8 as an attacker but has shifted further back in position over time. That would explain not being a stand-out performer during the various academy ages, transitioning from one position to another. Although that's quite common with academy players so won't be a major factor, I'd guess it's a part of why he wasn't nicked and not the whole reason.

It could be his overall technical ability wasn't deemed good enough, unlike Tomas Galvez (poached by Man. City) who looked super confident with the ball compared to Andrews.

That Andrews is now part of the England set-up also suggests his progress has been fast in the last couple of years so will be on every top level clubs radar both here and on the continent.

He's good right now with plenty of scope to improve. Whether his base abilities are good enough for potential buyers to see enough potential development to play at a higher level remains to be seen but it's encouraging he is showing other academy prospects it's possible to have a pathway to 1st team football at a good level with us, however it came about.

 

We'd be mental to sell him and he'd be mental to leave before the end of next season. A good young player with a lot of potential, but he needs at least another season at this level.

 

I hear Udinese might swoop with a surprise bid just before the takeover goes through.

 

Some people on here, mainly me, have said this for years and years. Others argued until they were blue in the face that our youth team players fell into only two categories - good enough so therefore they left for a better youth setup or not good enough so they might as well retire.

As usual, as Andrews and Morris have proved, I was right. And if we actually made any effort in developing young players, rather than the usual haphazard ‘hope for the best/sign a former top players son’ and invested in the academy, we’d get more and more. Another reason why I can’t wait for a new owner.

 

Are you sure about Morris as a poster boy for our youth setup?

 

Yeah he’s fine for this level. But if you want, take him out and the point remains, as it always has.

 

They really don't:

Firstly - Morris is not a product of our youth setup, he was a Southampton reject who we signed when he was 20 already! We spent longer developing Joao Pedro than him. He's also not that great either and shouldn't be first choice for a team with even vague ambitions of eventually reaching the playoffs.

Then with Andrews - in my discussions of the issue previously I've said that basically the only chance we have that one of our best prospects won't get nicked is if they have strong personal ties with the club - and that's the case with Andrews given that his dad also came through the Watford academy, made his debut here, and then went on to have a decent career. It's the same with the only other academy product we've had in the first team squad for a Championship game this season - Jack Grieves, who also has had a lot of elder relatives play for Watford. It's not a coincidence that those have been the only two up until now.

There is some faint hope that now that our better prospects will have seen how Andrews is progressing they might be more inclined to stick it out with us even without close family ties to the club, but at least if the age group immediately below the one of Grieves is anything to go by that doesn't seem to have filtered through yet as I don't think there are any particularly highly rated.

 

Fascinating to read, having just checked up on him via the medium of Wikipedia, that despite presumably qualifying for both the English and Spanish national teams, he has chosen to represent Finland at international level, and already made his debut for them.

What a baffling decision, on the face of it.

 

Simply meant Morris is more an example of the complete opposite to bringing players through our academy system. He's a cast off from a Cat A PL academy we picked up age 20 as an U23 team punt because we presumably couldn't produce our own left back. He's definitely the best of that cohort of players we brought in during the PL era as U23 ringers though.

 

He was born in Finland and lived there until he was 11 I think, so I don't think it's that weird he's chosen to represent them.

 

I don't mean to brag, but I know his mum.

 

Finland are also no mugs, they qualified for the last Euros and are in the playoffs to make Euro 2024

 

Just to pitch in on what both @GoingDown and @lowerrous have said...

I agree with GoingDown to some extent. Given the chance there were one or two who, in the recent past, could/should have been in and around the 1st team squad in our previous Championship seasons under the Pozzo ownership.

However, the owner has always wanted Premiership football so the chances of developing players were always slim as others deemed more instantly ready were transferred in to try and get the immediate 'success' of getting to and staying in the top league. Any coach who wanted to keep his job here was never really going to put his faith in an untried teenager unless he was an obvious talent.

Dan Phillips is the obvious name who could have been developed in the Championship despite his reputation of being a thuggish unit and the red cards he picked up. His disciplinary problems only really started when he was put back into the (then) under 23 side. It was as if he was either trying too hard to get in the 1st team squad after some pre-season appearances or he was frustrated at there seemingly being no chance whatever he did. Maybe a bit of both.
Watching him against Celtic for St Johnstone recently he looks a more composed player now who seems to know his game. No charging around the middle of the park trying to run the midfield, rather holding a good central position, winning the ball and laying it off. Off the the ball he appeared disciplined too with no rash charges out of a very tight defensive unit. What could have been...

I'm not 100% sold on lowerrous's opinion of family ties keeping the likes of Andrews, Grieves and Shaq Forde here but it may have played some part. And I think it's misguided to say others aren't rated as Adu-Poku was given a pro contract at 17, George Abbott too, and I think until his recent injury problems Tobi Adeyemo was impressing the club which earned him a 3 + 1 year deal last April, a month after his 18th birthday.

There appears to now be a policy to offer the best 18 year old contracts too, usually 2 years with an extra year option. Whether that means they're actually seen as future 1st team players, well, I doubt it, but I think it shows a further willingness to try and develop players. I heard an interview with either Omar Riza before he moved up to the 1st team or one of the other academy coaches who said something along the lines of a players cycle being 3 years at the top end of the academy. They didn't want to ditch every player at 18 or 19 because those final 2 or 3 years in the academy, along with training in and around the 1st team, could see them as late developers. It also (hopefully) shows some loyalty to the player, that the club is willing to invest time and money in them and in turn that loyalty may be repaid if other clubs come sniffing around.

In general I think under Johnson & Gilligan there appears to be signs of doing things differently with, hopefully, more chance of keeping the better players before they reach the under 18's without the astronomical spend of going category one. It will also depend on what division the club find themselves year on year as to how many more come through, and if the owner is serious about giving VI more time and control over players, especially if we did get promoted while he's still in charge.

 

He also played for Finland from under 15 level so perhaps feels at home and valued in their set up.

 

But he came from the youth setup into the first team. The development was there. Supposedly in an area where you’re either not good enough or will leave for a better setup (which is basically any other club). That’s my overall point. And it reinforces things further that not all youth players develop at the same rate. We’ve cast off plenty of youngsters who may have done something for us.

 

Wayne Andrews played 28 games for us. So it’s not even really a reason. It’s more because Wilder felt he was worth a go and we didn’t have anyone else. Wilder is old school and knows the benefits of local youth talent coming through.

We aren’t going to have many generational talents coming through, but we could have a top academy squeezing out the best we can from what we can. But for 10 years we haven’t bothered to the point that it’s even a shock that any young player is good enough.

But I agree with you on Phillips. I remember the client journalists at the time saying stuff like ‘Gino Pozzo has a special interest in his development’.

 

He was signed at 20 on a pro deal.

I'm presuming you are also one of the thin-skinned ones to also put me on ignore, or else I don't know how you couldn't also argue that Joao Pedro was somehow "one of our own" given he joined us even younger than Morris and stayed here longer?

Andrews was brought in to the team when Amass was half-way out the door and we were still desperately trying to persuade him to stay. Wilder was still required to be a Pozzo yes-man and I think the Amass thing hastened Pozzo realising we needed to put some (any) youth players in the first team to try and encourage others to stay.

 

Being average in the SPL for St Johnstone does not suggest though that he'd be good enough for where we are even in our current situation.

And when he first came in to the team he was absolutely terrible in his cameos.

If he's the best (or rather most damaging) example of a youth product we should have made more of an effort to play in the past then I don't think we've really missed out on too much.

 

Luke o’Nien was probably in the last 10 years the best player from our academy that we let go completely ourselves, he is or has been good enough to be Sunderland’s captain, obviously went via Wycombe, so no slight on us that we let him go.

 

Well no - because Andrews had established himself as a worthwhile option by the time Ismael came in, and his only competition is Ngakia who is crap and a crock.

But it felt like a clear policy shift from the club in January to encourage the use of Academy players more, and I think in the second half of last season the managers were encouraged to do that. It helped that our season was basically already over when Wilder came in anyway so we had little to lose by giving Andrews a chance.

 

And when he left us to go to Wycombe we had been promoted to the PL, so he wouldn't have got a look in at all with us.