Rugby Union - Six Nations & Erc

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Sting, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Ilkley

    Ilkley Formerly known as An Ilkley Orn Baht 'at

    I’ve wondered about this too. The answer I found on Reddit was this:

    Nobody seems to mention that they are very hard. Very very hard. Saint Jonny's famous drop goal was immediately preceded by at least one miss. As someone mentioned, if your forwards are dominant enough to get you in a good drop goal position you probably have the momentum to score a try or at least force a penalty. This means you're only really gunna need to pull them out of the bag in the dying moments of a game. So not only do you have the pressure of a wall a screaming players charging you down you also have to take the kick from a pass meaning you may not be in the ideal body position. Plus, you hold the success or failure of your team in your boot. I'm willing to bet if kicking drop goals all day would guarantee victory everyone from England to New Zealand would be banging them over all day long regardless of cultural bias but they are just too risky and difficult without enough of a pay-off to be relied upon to win games.
     
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  2. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    Rugby Union is a broken sport. Twenty eight years after going professional it's in a mess. The World Cup overlaps with regular season, meaning the Premiership gets completely overshadowed. Most clubs are on the brink financially and three clubs have recently gone bust.

    The players are huge compared to the pre-professional era. It's an unintended consequence of professionalism but a catastrophic one for the game. The players are bigger, faster, stronger than ever and so the damage they can do to each other is greater than ever. So they've tweaked the rules over and over to try to mitigate against the dangers and prevent (or at least reduce the chances) of the worst long-term damage being done to the players.

    As a result, social media is flooded with people moaning about the rules – long-term fans say they don't recognise the game anymore, it's gone soft, you can't tackle 'properly' any more and so on.

    There are likely going to be more ex-players with degenerative illness, motor function issues and the long-term effects of repeated concussions as the players who were at the vanguard of the professional era (for which I mean the bulking up) reach their late 40s and 50s.
     
  3. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    And you have to try to ensure that silly-shaped ball doesn’t bounce all funny as it hits the ground and you attempt the half-volley.
     
  4. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Truly one of the worst officiated games I've seen at a World Cup.

    Matt Carley should not be allowed to referee another game. Wales have been cynical . Simulating trying to waste time. But the referee. Appalling. Multiple infringements from Wales not penalized with cards. Fijian player carded straight away. Fiji scrum going forward no penalty try but gets hauled back. Awful idiot.

    Wales extremely fortunate. Fiji missed Muntz. Really hope Georgia do a number on Wales and Australia too. God I'm fuming as most neutrals will be.
     
  5. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    That was certainly a very close win for Wales - probably fortunate.

    Very good game .
     
  6. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    This is what makes me get hot under the collar. The referee the incompetent pillock pings Fiji for their first offence at a ruck. Card straight away. Wales commit multiple offences including cynical lying over the ruck. Gives a warning then does nothing. Repeats the warning does nothing. Multiple times.

    Guaranteed the three idiots in the studio will gloss over it. Not to mention Biggar getting away with a head contact like Kriel did with Scotland earlier. There has to be consistency. If Curry is sent off so should these two. Awful refereeing. So bad you think it's bent. Not to mention Wales unsportsmanlike actions. Simulating, trying to timewaste.

    No surprise. Glossed over. Heroic Welsh victory.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2023
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  7. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Pacific Islands have been stuffed for years, they have some of the most gifted players and play the most exciting brand of rugby but there's no money behind them. Fiji lost two of their best players just before the World Cup as they'd signed with French clubs who insisted they didn't play. What should be the highlight of their career taken away as they can't turn down the opportunity to make their families secure.

    That kind of performance from the ref is exactly what you expect. Fiji were never going to get anything. The failure to call the penalty try and yellow card was the worst call in a shameful performance. It was a shoulder charge, no other way to see it.

    17 penalties given against Wales but one yellow card. Three warnings not to do it again though so that's great...
     
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  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    English ref - maybe too friendly with the Welsh players?
     
  9. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Reminds me of Patrick O'Briens refereeing of Fiji against France in 1999 when Fiji were robbed. Everyone admitted as much afterwards. If Wales had won fair and square no problem. But they had a huge helping hand from Carley.

    Even on the try can't remember who it was late on in the second half he kept asking the TMO to assess the momentum of the players knee drive. To everyone it seemed a fair try but he in his own infinite wisdom decides no. This was his first World Cup game. He's clearly in no fit state with this performance to referee another.

    Why could we not have an African referee for this from South Africa. Or Argentina ? Anyone who knows rugby and the laws must be shaking their heads in disbelief. It was robbery all over again. Are they that desperate to make sure Australia and Wales get out of the group knowing that Fiji and Georgia are real dangers ? Makes me sick it does.
     
  10. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

  11. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Get in there.

    Fiji played well but were not quite good enough to win but still got 2 bonus points out of the game.

    It's been weeks and weeks of really patronising guff from the mainly English sports media about how Fiji only has a 1 million population and like Georgia, similar population, the smaller nations like Wales (3.5 million) could take a leaf of of their book. Blah, Blah, Blah. Well, Wales are a team in transition after so many senior player retirements and it's been a well-stated fact that Gatland was not happy about players fitness levels etc. However, Gatland is a wily fox and there's not too many better about getting a squad Tournament ready. This game has been weighing heavily on the nation for 4 years, so you can imagine the relief when the final whistle finally went.
     
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  12. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Fiji were robbed. Absolutely robbed. It's terrible seeing how one eyed the Welsh fans have been ignoring how Carley was so poor in his officiating. I don't care one whit about this English media nonsense. I want the teams that have been patronized, marginalized and exploited succeed. All that WR and the officials seem to want is for the same old unions in the quarter finals. I'd be delighted if Fiji and Georgia qualified to the quarters along with Samoa and maybe even make the semifinals.

    Fiji up to now have had precious little infrastructure let along a high performance centre. If the juniors they had want to progress they go to the Antipodes or here or France and the best ones get pinched for league or other teams. The other unions shameless have exploited the poor economies of the PIs to put pressure on players not to turn out for their nation. Raiwalui himself turned down an opportunity to play in order to make his family financially secure. Their sole resource is the fact that kids grow up playing the sport albeit on awful pitches, balls made out anything they can lay their hands on.

    The cynicism of the Welsh players in time wasting and simulating has no place in union. That and the officiating with Welsh players consistently infringing and not being properly penalized by this dolt of a referee who has no idea how to referee is sickening. Had he refereed for both sides the result would be quite different.
     
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  13. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    If this was a game of soccerball Wales would be congratulated for their professional performance.
    Even so Fiji could’ve won in the last move of the game but for butterfingers.
    Well done Wales for a well earned win.
    An exciting game of rugby for a group match.
    Come on Wales.
     
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  14. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Congratulated ? In union and indeed league we don't want what we saw from Wales yesterday. Time wasting, simulation of head injuries not to mention the amount of backchat to the referee which amazingly he only countered once unsurprisingly given he was utterly useless.

    How Mawi's try was disallowed in the end also beggars belief. Two Welsh players made no arm tackles but apparently they made an effort. There was also Nawaqanitawase against Georgia sliding in with his knees on their first try with Gigiashvili which is also a yellow card offence that was not even picked up. I don't agree with Monye on some things but he's absolutely right the referee refereed for one side last night. I raised this point in an article about will T2's get fairer treatment on the pitch. And as suspected they haven't been.

    Biggar who should have been carded immediately for lying over the ruck in such a way that the prop couldn't clear out quickly for Kurivoli then goes on to hit a 50-22 scores but gets pulled back for using a different ball but still leads to a try. To say that the referee did not affect the outcome of this match is burying one's head in the sand.

    I'm not that surprised as he's wildly inconsistent. If only we had multiple Nigel Owens but some of the new crop are utterly awful like Brice and the fool yesterday. It also raises the question with WR we only have one Georgian referee and one Italian touch judge. The other officials are all from the old unions network. No one from Argentina for instance. WR should be filtering in promising officials from other parts of the rugby world given that they hold so many clinics. And referee in competitions like SR, URC.

    The sole bright spot was Chile's effort. Given that they are mostly semiprofessional they showed a lot of pride, effort and no little skill against a side which is full of imports. Several can certainly join the likes of Ayarza the fullback in ProD2 which is a very high level of club competition somewhere between the Premiership and Championship. Like Fernandez the flyhalf, the Escobar brothers, both Garafulic brothers although one had to leave the squad with injury and the wily scrumhalf Torrealba.

    Just shows what unions can do for those on the development path. Argentina have sent coaches and players across South America to this end and organized the SLAR the semiprofessional tournament with Selknam being the Chilean franchise in it. Indeed South American rugby looks to have a healthy future with Brazil developing too. WR still don't have the balls to get more Tests between T1 and T2. It's the same old fixture list between the T1s. The anachronism of the Lions every three years and now this ridiculous plan for a World League essentially meaning there will be no T2 v T1 fixtures at all. All sports need to grow. WR controlled as it still is by the old network don't seem to have any desire to make the necessary changes to make it a sport with a real competitive depth at the top.

    What's exciting ? Matches that are close and unpredictable ? Or the opposite ? That's why football has the appeal it does at World Cups. You have a bigger pool of potential winners. And upsets at most WCs like Saudi toppling Argentina. I'm sure there would be more sponsors and viewers if that were the case and also if union was developed properly in more nations.
     
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  15. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Every team at every World Cup will have got hard done by a ref at some point along with some monumental stupidity by one of their own team mates, like Corey Domachowski yesterday.

    Fiji had plenty of chances to get the necessary points to win the game, Can't blame the Ref for not having a decent goalkicker or for white line fever fumbles, and Biggar missed 2 or 3 kicks too. These things will improve with time and patience. When we're talking about cynicism and gamesmanship, there is not one team whose players play in the major leagues in Europe and in the Southern Hemisphere who are not guilty of these types of transgression. Gareth Davies did get clobbered round the head and soon went off for an HIA, if that's the simulation you're on about.

    Wales and Carley have form.

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-v-fiji-referee-matthew-27645150

    upload_2023-9-11_22-58-51.png

    Don't get me started about his mate running the line Wayne Howler Monkey Barnes himself, particularly that 100 minute match and other instances at other World Cups.

    Anyway, what a cracking first round of matches. Can't wait for the next lot.
     
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  16. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Whose bright idea was it to have a primary school choir singing the National Anthems. Why not go the whole hog and have the under-9 s violin class accompany them.. The National Anthems should be left alone with some minimal musical cueing to provide a bit of direction.
     
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  17. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    South African Referees have also been know to fark things up at the WC too. Just ask the Sweaties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...-mistake-penalty-australia-scotland-world-cup
     
  18. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    You forgot to highlight the first 7 words of my sentence as it was clearly a tongue in cheek comment.
    Fiji had their chances to win. It wasn’t just the ref.
    Mr Carley can now enjoy his free holidays on the Gower coast. o_O
     
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  19. Chewitt

    Chewitt Forum Extraordinaire

    Any real reason why having only just kicked off on Friday there’s now 3 days with no games followed by just one on Thursday & Friday?
     
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Rugby players tend to need more rest hence you never see any mid week club matches or anything.
     
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  21. Chewitt

    Chewitt Forum Extraordinaire

    Makes sense, cheers!
     
  22. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Another dreadful decision from the referee and TMO in the bunker. Clear shoulder to the head of Arata and just remains a yellow. Then the idiots in the studio like Alphonsi and Fitzpatrick say it's fair. It's contact to the head, no attempt to wrap and Taiofenua has form for this as well. Tier 2s might as well not bother turning up.
     
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  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Yes that was lucky and the disallowed try harsh on the Uruguayans too .

    Uruguay were excellent .

    France complacent and very sloppy .

    They won’t want to rely on those players too much !
     
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  24. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    South Africa already have their bonus point for 4 tries within 11 minutes against Romania.
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Fiji doing well v the Aussies .

    Be a big win if they hold on.
     
  26. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Fiji - WOW!
    Aussies should’ve given it to Campese lol.
    A fantastic game of rugby.
    Fiji almost playing 7’s the whole game, but they’ve got their forwards act together.
    Well done to everybody’s favourite second team.
     
  27. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Great result for Fiji, for union, for the PIs and for the T2s. Hope Fiji get included in the RC sooner rather than later. The scoreline would have been bigger but for Brace allowing that Australian try, an appalling lineout and a couple of missed kicks.

    Romania desperately need help but those calling (the usual dinosaur old fart suspects) for the WC to be reduced in number of teams (myopic fools) are missing the point. Namely the huge disadvantages the T2s labour under. Until the playing field is levelled and more resources and inclusion provided nothing will change. We don't want or need this World League barring the old boys network. Georgia into the 6N and Fiji into the RC straight away for a start.

    But for the idiot Carley last week Fiji would be in the QFs.
     
  28. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Fiji no longer plays sevens rugby. That was a well controlled game. In complete control apart from the lineouts. Recycling the ball, knowing when to keep it in and when to play it wide. Shame about the botched try at the end. If they had Muntz they would be in even tighter control. Australia are no great shakes as I said. Georgia froze initially last week and then messed up 4 tries.
     
  29. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Really?
    News to me.
    Why would a rugby mad nation give up playing the code of rugby they excel at?
     
  30. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    They still excel at sevens but they've slightly been overtaken by the likes of Argentina recently. Thing is the sensible teams use sevens to hone some of their fifteens handling skills. But for years they've lacked a solid setpiece. The lineout was creaking again today, They also lacked flyhalves who kicked tactically but that's all been gradually rectified. And they still have the ability to offload and create mismatches at will. Which is allied to the beach rugby they play in Fiji.
     
  31. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    England looking much more fluid in this second half.
     
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  32. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Another scrappy win for England. Japan seemed to drop the ball every time they had an advantageous position. First side that exerts pressure on England they'll crack open. Borthwick needs time but the team looks very uninspired. Great result with Fiji winning. And but for Carley they would be almost home and hosed for the QF's. Australia as I said are no great shakes. Portugal performed creditably and the scoreline flattered Wales. Tremendous support and it's a country WR should be investing in and pushing forward as they move ahead along with Spain of Romania.

    Was worried Romania might concede a century after SA went after them but they managed to pull it back. Maybe, just maybe this might be the result to get the FRR to change it's domestic structure and actually do something positive for Romanian rugby as currently it's run very badly with the leader former player Petrache using it as a means for expensive trips abroad with his officials. They've managed to alienate many clubs and supporters in Romania not to mention sponsors some of whom have pulled out as a result causing clubs that were being established to collapse.

    Perhaps WR ought to have a body that can step in and take over a union when it's being run so poorly. Canada also springs to mind not to mention the US union which somehow managed to bankrupt itself before recovering. This is what it meant to people in Fiji. Hope they get to a semifinal. That would be a huge achievement and something that they are quite capable of.

     
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  33. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Brave effort from Uruguay. Etcheverry lost the plot for a while at flyhalf and his poor kicking led to the two early Italian scores which allowed the Azzurri back into the match. I hope touring sides to Argentina include either or both Chile and Uruguay on their itinerary. They deserve it and are improving. Some real talent in this side for the future like Amaya and Deus.
     
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  34. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Have France got a much stronger side tonight making a lot of difference to last week?

    Guess playing 14 men helps.
     
  35. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Full strength. Dupont fractured cheekbone which saw Deysel sent off. Not malicious or intentional. Namibia as I said have lots of issues. Distance in the country, Lack of infrastructure. Being kicked out of the Currie Cup by the lovely SARU. And most of their team is really still amateur although they play some games in the lower tier of the Currie Cup now. They do turn out the odd star player like Jacques Burger formerly of this parish and Chrysander Botha was very decent too but it's difficult. Something as I said their coach Coetzee is trying to remedy with a new development plan.

    None of this was discussed by the idiots in the ITV studio. Pougatch in particular gets on my wick. Purring on about France. Yes excellent tries but you look at who they are facing. And the French fans insufferable again. Do they realize the resources they have compared to Namibia ? I think it's karma Dupont was walloped. Even at the end 96-0 with Namibia down to 13 they wanted to play on past the eighty minutes against a team who are out on their feet. Have some decency guys and kick the ball out instead of trying to stat pad.

    Not so long ago Namibia prior to professionalism fully taking off beat Ireland 2-0 in a Test series and Italy. The referee was Carley and he also gets on my nerves. Laughing and joking with the French players but not with the Namibians. Also so quick to award the penalty try and yellow card to the Namibians at the end. Didn't do that against Wales strangely. The man's a joke as a referee.
     
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