Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by RookeryLad, Aug 28, 2022.
Either before or after the match I'm not 100% sure but he definitely said it.
It should also be remembered that Edwards by his own admission, several times in fact, has said he has been involved in the selection of targets and signed off on these transfers. Does make it abit difficult to turn around and start throwing around ultimatums.
As for Laird, with the limited number of loan spots available the club clearly felt that areas such as the left footed cb Edwards wanted where better uses of those loan spots. Especially since Hungbo was being converted to that rwb role in preseason and Kamarra (not ideal I know) can play there. And Gasper might still work out, after all you don't make 300/400+ appearances for a team like Villarreal nor represent Spain if your ****
All good points as always @Steve Leo Beleck
I’m not saying United were wrong to pull out.
I’m merely saying I’m uneasy with any parent club trying to dictate terms to us.
The same happened with Garner. Again I’m sure no exact promises were made, so it was a grey area, but it ended in tears.
And to be clear, I wish we had signed Laird.
There’s always the danger that posts can be read in a way whereby a person then gets pigeon-holed on one side or another of the current hot topic. I’m certainly not anti Edwards. He’s a breath of fresh air. I have a good friend in the media who worked with him at Forest Green and rates him highly. We went unbeaten in our first five under him.
However, I’m putting forward the point for discussion that he shouldn’t automatically get a free hit during a poorer run merely because of a huge dislike of our owners and CEO.
I don’t believe it’s right to say he’s been completely let down and hung out to dry. For me, that would be seeing all our better players sold and no incomings at all.
Saying that doesn’t mean I don’t have some sympathy for him, as it’s clear our incomings so far haven’t been perfect overall, and we are still lacking in a few key positions for his ideal system.
Again...was there any indication that United strongarmed us in any way? He certainly wasn't an automatic pick when he was here (although Ivic gave him a lot of game time like he did all the youngsters), but he didn't really excel and ultimately wasn't it a mutual decision to send him back?
I'll reiterate that surely the most basic of signings we could have made to 'back' Rob would have been a RWB, but regardless, you can't say 'well, we've backed you a bit because we haven't sold everyone and replaced them with nobody', who on earth would agree a contract on those conditions?
I’ll counter the second paragraph by saying the club could (and indeed, should) have purchased Matt Clarke, who is younger, better, fitter and has leadership qualities for the small fee Brighton wanted - that would have left a loan spot free.
But as ever, the glaringly obvious choice isn’t made. The club can’t help themselves.
But my original point of yesterday was that we identified Laird and talked to him and United. We haven’t been sitting back doing nothing. United pulled the plug, not us.
There remain four days to try to make amends.
As most of us are inclined to do to try to win a debate, you’ve homed in on one specific. My comments have really been about the bigger picture.
Have we failed to sign the kind of pacy wing back Rob’s system needs? Yes of course. And that’s not good. But have we totally failed him in the window? In my opinion, no not totally. Partially yes but not totally.
He’s been given a left-footed centre back. A striker. A very experienced defender. A PL defensive midfielder. Admittedly the less said the better about Bayo and Minaj, although he claims to have been happy with their signings and to rate them
Even when Gaspar signed, Edwards was seemingly throwing a bit of shade on him, despite the claim that he was involved in the signing (I suppose it's possible that he was willing to give him a go before finding out that his legs have gone). As for Hungbo, we've not seen him play there yet this season, it's always been Kamara preferred there (and besides, as a left-footer, he'd have the same issues anyway). Not that bothered about Clarke, as someone who has worked with Edwards before, I see no reason why Hause simply wasn't Edwards' first choice (although admittedly a permanent deal would have given us a bit more flexibility)
We don't know this.
United have their agenda too, as anyone understandably would when they're loaning out youngsters, we can't expect them to be happy with Laird potentially playing backup all season, why on earth would we jeopardise a really suitable signing for someone who just isn't?
But even if it's true, why would we go ahead with the Gaspar signing, knowing he's not a 'flyer', when United are threatening to pull the plug on a deal for a player who definitely is?
Yes we do. The decision not to send him came from the United end.
Show me where thats proven please then?
No use asking me. I’m just a supporter, like you.
My original post here yesterday wasn’t so I could get into a longer debate about the merits of signing or not signing Laird. Anybody would have to be quite stupid I think to have seen the match on Saturday and not realised we should have signed him ahead of Gaspar. That’s not what is being discussed here
I used to work in the media. I have friends and contacts at Old Trafford. I’m going on what they told me.
I don’t question your contacts and informed information that you share with us here, so I hope you’re not about to do the same with me.
If my information is wrong, I apologise in advance, but people whose knowledge I trust told me United pulled the plug.
Hardly seems worth a long debate on such a lovely August bank holiday anyway.
I don’t think anybody here disagrees that we missed a trick in not signing him.
I’m not saying you’re wrong and I’m not questioning it - your comment was ‘Yes WE do know that…’ - that suggested it was public knowledge and the info was out there for us all.
I was simply asking where I could see that based on you saying ‘we’ and not ‘I’.
Good. Because tbh I’d feel quite insulted if you were implying I was posting made up stuff.
So I’m glad you’ve cleared that up.
As I said, my information could be wrong. If so, I apologise for posting it here.
Maybe it was Watford who backed out of the deal, and if so I’d find that another poor piece of (lack of) business this window.
I’m sure that elsewhere on the internet, here and/or other outlets, other people too posted that it was the United end that pulled out of the deal.
You wouldn't need to apologise even if it were wrong, as you've clearly posted what you have heard in good faith! Certainly no one should say sorry for honestly trying to inform people of things they may not otherwise know!
I have posted previously that it was my belief (but I didn't have info) that United would have wanted to send him elsewhere due to questions over game-time. So I don't question what you're saying at all. As I explained, I was just seeing if it was public knowledge and something I'd missed.
The issue for me is the apparent lack of activity in attempting to find an alternative to Laird.
Yes me too
Gaspar is the alternative.
According to Gino anyway.
You can't baffle me with long words!
Didn’t we lose to them on Saturday?
Embarrassing to lose to a Scottish third Division team.
The sole and only reason for a big club to loan a young player out is game time, if they’re not going to play their development will actually be stunted being around crap like Cathcart, WTE and Cleverley etc. every day, they’d learn a whole lore more being around some of the best players in the world even if they’re not playing. It’s no surprise and completely understandable a big club would want assurances of game time. If you don’t like it as the loaning club don’t approach these players as it’s just surely common sense, can’t get my head round the idea that we should be surprised or annoyed by it.
This tactic worked out well for Scott Parker. Nice payoff though!
But with us he ‘d get all the sympathy too rather than as Bournemouth have been praised for the decision!
Have they? All I've seen is big 6 fans and the usual suspect pundits castigate Muff for *checks notes* sacking a manager who has just lost 9-0 and basically said to the media afterwards that it would happen again...
I find it interesting that the debate over whether RE has been supported seems to have come down to the fact that, to date, we have not signed a specialist RWB. I agree with Malteser2 that this is a negative but must be balanced against the signings we have made that do appear to support RE - Davis, Hause, and Choudhury, for example. It may be simply that we’ve tried to sign a flying RWB but, to date, haven’t been able to. Let’s judge on the basis of all signings, once the window closes.
Nice subtle shift from the Pozzo footmen
A week ago when the need for RWB was painfully obvious:
“let’s only judge once the window closes”
Deadline day when it’s obvious they aren’t going to bother with a RWB:
“let’s only judge once the window closes on the basis of all signings”
What did we sign Gaspar for then if they have been trying to sign a flying RWB?
And as Jumbo says, nice convenient editing of your views now it’s becoming clear we won’t be giving the manager what he needs. I was looking forward to what you had to say once the window shut with us not having bought Edwards the RWB he clearly needs, what with you wanting to give the club the time to do it.
Hopefully we don't sign a RWB, none of you deserve it after all the mean things you've said about Gino, Dux and the podcasters.