Paris Shootings

Or you could counter argue without being so patronising?

 

I don't think there are many who wouldn't agree to this is some respect. Hundreds of thousands have died in Syria and we go on posting videos about cats. There hasn't been a Syrian filter. We 'aren't' Syrian like after Charlie Hebdo.

But it doesn't make it inappropriate either - only anyone who claims that only they and their people's suffering means anything. And lot's of people show everyday that they care about what reaches their limited field of view like the response of most in the West to refugees.

And lastly you can't expect people not to care more about what may have implications for them - where they have been and in situations they might find themselves. No one can suggest this couldn't happen here tomorrow.

 

As I said above, there are many, many precedents for innocuous items surviving suicide bombings, exposions, plan crashes etc.

One of the 7/7 bombers was identified by a gym membership card he had in his wallet

Its odd that you (whilst admitting no knowledge of this) are happy to post "lol" and mock the idea that it could be true

 

The middle east could sort it's own problems out in an instant if it would collectively look up from the middle ages religious Sunni v Shia mumbo jumbo Keep blaming the west for all it's problems is getting old.

 

The Saudi's could fix it all if they weren't such hypocrites.

 

If Iraq and Libya with Hussein and Gaddaffi has taught us anything, its that regime change isn't a solution which necessarily fixes anything

The Saudis may be bad, but we have no idea what they are simultaneously suppressing

 

It's total bollox. If you think you are doing the Muslim cause a good service, you are mistaken. Listening to some on the radio and TV today, some are, but not you.

One day you'll just repair that chip on your shoulder and accept the truth.

 

What's the truth then ZZ? Enlighten me?

 

Except we have given and continue to give fortunes the world has rarely seen the like of to the Saudis and all the weapons they desire. We encouraged them to spread Wahabism and supported the uprising against Assad. And we turned the thing upside down when we invaded Iraq. The Russians have bolstered opposing militaries and both they and we have supported tyrants of different hues across the region.

I'm not saying Sunni and Shia couldn't organise a big ding dong on their own, but we in the West have been utterly ruinous for the region. Ordinary Saudis might have hung the Sauds from the lampposts years ago. We would have stopped them.

But I'll repeat - this is about power and it is the nature of power that forms the religion. The two biggest powers in the region, Saudi Arabia and Iraq both export extremism because they use it to control every aspect of the lives of their own subjects. It has as a similar relation to 'Islam' as the Spanish Inquisition had to Christianity. I too wish it (fundamentalism) could perish tomorrow.

 

Don't you read or watch the news?

 

Not sure how questioning the fact a passport survived a suicide bombing equals to having a chip on my shoulder?

 

You didn't question it though, be honest, you mocked the idea that it could be true

 

You come across on this thread as having a huge chip on your shoulder. 100 people dead and you want to snipe at the Israelis? This isn't the thread to do it.

 

I do believe that many of you are missing out on Kay Burley's valuable insights into the tragedy, so here we are again.

https://twitter.com/KayBurley/status/665807478060392448

 

Haha. Saw that earlier. Some of the replies were great.

 

I wish I had a time machine to be able to roll on 1000 years from now to see if the human race has evolved into some higher enlightenment or battered itself into oblivion.

 

Two aliens are observing Earth.
One says 'The dominant species has developed satellite based nuclear weapons systems'
The other says 'Wow, do you reckon we've finally found an intelligent species?'
First alien says 'Oh, I doubt it . They've got them pointed at themselves...'

 

Thats not interesting it's just moronic - like the thoughts that there should be closed borders and all Muslims are evil

 

A very good article, and I agree with both you and the writer.

 

This is stupid.

It really is pointless looking back more than a year or so. Mistakes have been made, usually with the best of intentions. But regardless, as far as the terrorism is concerned, we are where we are.

It is fairly simple.

On one side we have ISIL who want to spread their diseased interpretation of Islam across the Middle East, most of Africa and parts of Europe, using the most barbaric and despicable forms of genocide, inhuman torture and rape than can. There biggest victims are fellow Muslims. But they have no qualms about killing innocent people with Kalashnikovs and bombs (and maybe worse in the future). To help their cause they are indoctrinating or grooming other Muslims to their cause from across the West.

On their side, giving them plenty of support and good publicity, are those looking to search back for reasons for their deeds and their sympathisers who criticise everything that is done to try stop this genocide and think we, instead of killing the worse offenders with targeted bombs, should send PC Plod over there to caution and arrest them, and give them the platform to put across their sick point of view in a Court House.

On their side also, are some of their fellow Muslims who continually deny the Islamic problem, and therefore do not contribute or counteract the pressure on ISIL from within Islam.

On their side also are those that continually want to put obstacles in the way of our security services who are only just containing the bloodbath in the UK. Those that think we should open the borders and let terrorists in almost unhindered. Those that think that decisions on surveillance should be made by sleepy old judges woken in the middle of the night instead of the professionals who devote their lives to assessing the danger and those who think it is a bigger danger that their own emails, texts and phone calls may be monitored than the terrorist threat.

On the opposite side we have everyone else who as things get worse, unfortunately, from amongst the most extreme, will start to seek some sort of severe "revenge" on innocent Muslims in the West.

Unless ISIL is left totally isolated by 100% condemnation and we all unite against them, tragically this bloodbath will continue and will only get worse.

It is that simple.

 

Presumably these Muslims who are allegedly denying 'the Islamic problem' only have to fess up to anything in the last year and can chalk anything else up to 'a mistake with the best intentions'?

 

http://www.terrorismwatch.org/2015/11/grand-imam-of-al-azhar-condemns-attacks.html

Is that not an extremely odd choice of wording, or is it just me?

I can't find the entire speech but this newsbite popped up on the BBC news feed yesterday and it immediately caught my eye. I hope I haven't taken things out of context here (as I can't find the whole interview) but why not use your position in society to label these attacks as barbaric perhaps, despicable, inhumane, abhorrent, gutless even. Why chaotic?

I don't think his speech would have been lost in translation, as it was picked up by the BBC and other major news networks, but I think it was a shame that he wasn't more forceful. People in positions such as his have a key role to play in this conflict.

 

If they can, then it would help the situation.

i dont hear ISIL justify their atrocities by bring up the invasion of Iraq over a decade ago, or Afghanistan, or WMD, or oil. They talk about the current issues. They have their centuries old, but continuing dislike of the Shia's, the air strikes and the non-believing infidels, and their driven desire to consolidate and expand their caliphate.

 

French jets just bombed IS strongholds...

 

Quite. It's like he can't bring himself to a full condemnation. Very odd.

 

Well 'chaotic' is a translation (unless he gave his speech in English) and the thesaurus just gave me 'lawless', 'deranged', 'rampageous' amongst others for chaotic. Inducing 'chaos' may be considered anti-islamic for all I know - so there may be lot's of explanations. But he condemned it.

But in a way, who cares? When Anders Breivik killed 70 people in Norway in the name of protecting 'Christian Europe' or that massacre took place in the church in the US I didn't need the Pope to tell me it was wrong. I'm sure that's how the vast majority of muslims feel witnessed by the 'not in my name' campaign of muslims and those protesting it in Trafalgar Square today.

 

It's going to be hard enough winning this - though the Caliphate will be defeated and sooner rather than later. Making peace last is the really difficult bit.

Al Quaeda were beaten in the big 'push' in Iraq only for them to reform and get green lighted to have a pop at Assad. We just can't repeat that sort of thing.

 

I said simple, but no way will it be easy. But there is no other way. If ISIL did ever get round to "talking", it will only be when they are facing defeat.

 

Breivik comparison is completely pointless. He didn't represent anyone more than a possible handful of freaks. ISIL claim to represent the whole philosophy of the Islamic world, and the Islamic world, through their leaders, have to make sure everyone else knows they don't.

Completely different.

 

Concert hall may not have been chosen randomly. It had Jewish owners until very recently and the band themselves were involved in a media spat with Roger Waters regarding playing in Israel.

 

What are Muslims supposed to do sorry?

Go find these terrorists and politely ask them to stop or say it's wrong in front of national television and hope it has some sort of effect on these sick, twisted bastards?

More Muslims have been killed by ISIS than anyone else.

-On September 5, ISIS executed three Sunni women in Mosul. What was their “crime”? They refused to provide medical care to ISIS fighters. - On September 9, ISIS executed a Sunni Imam in western Mosul for refusing to swear loyalty to ISIS. - On August 2, a man from the Salah ad Din province was abducted and beheaded for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS. -On August 19, a female Muslim doctor south of Mosul was killed for organizing a protest to object to ISIS’ mandate that female doctors cover their faces with religious veils when treating patients -On August 31, 19 Sunni Muslim men were executed in Saadiya for refusing to swear allegiance to ISIS. -On July 22, a Sunni Imam in Eastern Baquba was killed for simply denouncing ISIS. -On September 9, ISIS executed two Muslim women by shooting them in the back of the head. Their exact “crime” was not known.

And the list goes on from ISIS slaughtering 1,500 Iraqi soldiers in June to blowing up numerous Sunni mosques because apparently the leaders of those mosques refused to swear loyalty to ISIS.


It is not a religion issue, it is a humanity issue.

 

@Squibba i think the issue here is the silent yet significant minority who agree with Islamism. For example ,28% of UK Muslims sympathysing with the Charlie Hebdo attackers,or the large majority who are ardently opposed to LGBT rights for example.

Individually ,the Muslims I've met in life have been some of the most interesting and kind people I have come across. What worries me,and I'm sure many others is the surge of these types of events in Europe. Why has there been more coverage of the Paris attacks than the Beirut attacks? I think its pretty simple, one country borders Syria and was in the midst of a civil war 30 years ago,and the other is a western democracy which allows human rights to all its citizens.

I'm yet to come across any statistic or data etc that puts my mind at ease about the growing problem of Islamism in Europe. If its bad now,then I dread to think how it will be 20-30 years down the line if I'm honest .

 

Where's the article that says 28% agree?

 

You are totally missing the point.

It isn't about Muslims saying sorry for these terrorist acts.

It isn't about them politely asking hardened terrorists to stop either.

It is about Muslims not giving the ISIL cause or their interpretation of Islam a shred of credibility. It should be done with total 100% certainty. Not hedged criticism, total. That may help stop ordinary young adults or children being groomed into joining ISIL (a process that you unbelievably deny even happens). That comes particularly from their leaders, but also from individuals, like you, who are active on social media.

It is also about local Muslims alerting the authorities as soon as they think someone they know may be being recruited by ISIL.

 

Reports now of a rocket launcher being seized in Lyon.

Jeez!