Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Eastcoastorn, Oct 5, 2021.
Can I ask……..why are you looking at the Stoke City forum? Seems a bit random to me
Just bored and looking at what other fans were saying .
Fair play. You’ve done well to get all the way down to ‘S’. I admire your dedication.
Don't you use debt to run YOUR business?
Comedy thread that FTRE tweet. Not sure if it's all of them, but certainly some of them are just mindless sycophants.
It’s funny how immediately defensive they got when they realised they’d pushed the club propaganda boat out too far this time
Who seriously gives a f**k what anyone outside our club thinks? Genuinely couldn’t care less. If anything it amuses me to see some muppets like Lineker, Owen, Merson etc triggered by our model. Hilarious.
I would rather we acted now as a club rather than stick by a manager only taking us in one direction and then it’s too late to do anything. Our pro-active stance is a good thing.
This is a balanced deep dive by the 2 Robbies...really get to the root of the problem.
SPOILER: It's not...2 mediocre players and even worse pundits.
So it was too early to sack him now but then could have done it in the summer ..
The media would have gone even more mad sacking a manager straight after promotion without even seeing if he could cut it in the Premier league !
Didn’t WBA get rid of Bilic after a 1-1 draw at Man City last season ?
It’s nothing to do with number of points - more performances.
I just think it’s hilarious all these comments I’ve seen. It’s just football at the end of the day, imagine being a ‘pundit’ like Owen, Savage or Sutton getting your knickers in a twist about this. Sad cases all of them.
Was enjoying that until the last paragraph when he mentioned Claudios time at Fulham being so bad but failed to mention what he did at Sampdoria and Roma.
Of course we have to remember teams like us and Norwich/Burnley to some extent although they all love Dyche aren't really wanted in the Premier league ahead of bigger teams in the EFL.
Even if we didn't have a management merry go round don't think we'd be that popular tbh.
It must pain some people to have:
in the top league ahead of a Forest/Sheff Wednesday/Sunderland etc.
Obviously to at least certain groups of supporters, to a certain extent, this is pretty clearly true, and it's a sentiment you can relatively often see overtly/unashamedly expressed - that being said, I do sometimes wonder what it would take to stop that being the case/how long it might take for those clubs to stop being seen as temporarily embarrassed millionaires/darling little princelings of English football just waiting to get their act together and once again take up the place they deserve by mere existence in the top division.
Derby haven't been in the Premier League since 2008, and look to all intents and purposes as though they're heading out of their current division in the wrong direction - Sheffield Wednesday were last relegated from the Prem in 2000; 21 years ago. Forest are even longer; most recently seen up at these dizzying heights in the previous millennium (1999). Even Sunderland are currently in their fifth season since last they were relegated - all but one of which they've spent in the third tier of English football.
Just how long does it take before the general perception amongst Larry and Baz the average football ****wits is altered enough to stop endless bouts of teary-eyed suggestions that Norwich should be banned from promotion, that Burnley bring nothing to/don't deserve their place in the league, or that we are nothing more than a second-tier club constantly getting relegated as punishment for firing managers (despite the actual truth of having just spent five consecutive seasons in the Premier League with at least one more occurring as we speak, taking us to a majority of seasons in the last decade regardless of how it plays out under Ranieri)?
Sadly, given the fact that Everton last competed for the title/trophies in the early to mid-80s, coming right up on 40 years ago, yet both fans and pundits alike constantly talk and act as though they are still a 'big club' who are just around the corner/one great signing away from challenging for the Champions League again, I have a depressing suspicion that it won't be for some time yet.
Larry and Baz may not have enormous intellectual capacity, but they sure do seem to have long memories.
I’m sure the top 6 would much prefer those bigger clubs to be in the prem in our place for financial reasons. However I’m sure the rest are delighted that a bunch of smaller clubs are in the prem to reduce their own relegation risk. The more clubs like Wolves, AV and Leeds reestablish themselves in the prem, the more clubs like CP, Soton, Newcastle etc will be at risk of relegation.
I remember a Collymore article on how the PL needed these “grand old clubs”
Interesting that you put Newcastle in with Palace and Southampton, rather than Villa and Leeds.
I think this all comes down to people’s definition of a ‘big’ club. The product and brand of the PL will always benefit financially from having member clubs with the biggest following or potential following, which does not include the likes of Burnley and Watford with their 20k stadiums. Going back in history, once the original professional clubs from northern towns were caught up by clubs from the big cities it was always the latter who would have the financial advantage and automatically become the ‘big’ clubs. This effect was set in stone once the maximum wage for players was removed.
The reason all the biggest clubs are not in the PL is why we love football: it’s possible to put together a good team at a small club to surpass a poorly managed bigger club, because the gap between the two can still be bridged. In fact the biggest gap now exists between the elite few who qualify for the Champions League almost every season and the next tier down, hence why a club like Everton has been unsuccessful for so long. Even Arsenal and Spurs are in danger of falling into this category if they haven’t already: highly unlikely to be relegated but also highly unlikely to win anything.
It should also be remembered that clubs like Forest and Sunderland have only ever had relatively short periods of success during their history, which is in line with their status of being clubs from smallish cities.
I notice yesterday he was on the warpath about us suggesting we were just a chaos club. When people put valid points to him that we have actually been quite successful, his sole thread of response was that it ‘will eventually catch up with us’.
So if we stay up for 20 seasons, win 3 cups and have 25 managers, he reserves the right in 2042 to say ‘I told you so.’
Sounds like some people on this forum
Indeed it was just a quick email without much thought as to which clubs to quote. My general point was that I'm sure plenty of mid table clubs are delighted that the likes of us, Norwich, Burnley etc are in the league rather than the likes of NF who may bring greater match day revenues but a greater threat to their prem status. In the same way I'm sure we were delighted when the likes of Huddersfield, Cardiff, etc were promoted. I agree that it is becoming easier for smaller clubs to establish themselves. What is absolutely key for a small club is to get a good start in the first 5 or 6 games once promoted to retain the confidence and feel good factor that came with promotion. A good start is what kept Sheff Utd up that first season, us in 2015, Hull under Brown, almost Blackpool under Holloway. A tough start and a run of defeats erodes any confidence and spirit. Imagine the different atmosphere for Brentford and Norwich for their next games. If Brentford had had the same opening fixtures as Norwich, their confidence would have gone and they would have struggled but an easy start and a win against spineless and weakened Arsenal has set them up perfectly.
Surely a significant underestimate?
Jamie O'Hara (whoever he is...ex-pro apparently) has put himself on the radar on TalkSport. He had a pop at us a couple of days ago saying he can't stand Watford and hopes we get relegated (in connection with the sacking). Today he's having a go at Norwich saying the Premier League should be reduced to 18 so we can get rid of the dross like Norwich, who are an embarrassment and are destroying the Premier League.
For me, the only embarrassment are ex-pros (and there are many of them) who have this elitist attitude. It's these people that destroy the EPL. Football is for everyone, not just the top six clubs. No doubt he was fully in favour of the European Super League. There are far too many t0ssers on chat shows, SkySports or other media platforms, who spout constant elitist crap, week after week. It's sickening really.
He (O’Hara) really is the worst pundit out there. I’ve stopped listening to the Sports Bar now he’s taken over, apart from Friday when the ever excellent Adam Caterall hosts it. O’Hara is lazy and ill-informed. They even make a play on how ignorant he is about things like world geography and how to pronounce things. How dare he refer to our beloved club as a disgrace, especially considering the way he seems to have conducted himself in his private life over the years.
Sports punditry seems to divide into two now more sharply than ever. On the one hand you have those who take it seriously, who are properly researched and informed. They might not all be our cup of tea but at least you feel that people such as Neville, Carragher etc know their stuff even if we might disagree with their point of view. On the aforementioned TalkSport they do have a few good presenters/pundits such as Jordan, Cundy, Danny Kelly and Caterall who I already mentioned as I think he’s top drawer, but then they demean the station by promoting the likes of O Hara and others. They’ve now got some awful rugby player who adds nothing to any mature sporting debate. They’re happy boasting about how drunk they get, how much golf they play and in O’Hara’s case how terrible a manager he was when he actually gave it a go, but clearly spend little time briefing themselves on football outside of the big four.
I'm pleased to report that O'Hara is getting a lot of abuse right now over his comments.
Jamie O'Hara gets mugged off after suggesting controversial Premier League proposal - Fan Banter
Fair point about the quality of broadcasting - some are actually professional and learned how to do the job whilst others like you say just get given it without any experience or really having any knowledge.
Talk sport has that lads culture (as the Sports bar shows) anyway and defiantly very big club focused.
Have to say not really a fan of Cundy either at times and Andy Goldstien came across as a bit of a bully to callers but maybe that was all part of the "banter"?
Likes of Danny Kelly are good and Adrian Durham when not in "WUM" mode.
Yes that annoyed me too about Goldstein, although to be fair to him he’s actually a very decent bloke in real life who does a lot of good work towards mental health stuff.
Cundy sums up the station for me. When he’s actually in serious football mode, he’s actually a good pundit, as you’d expect from somebody who is both quite eloquent and who had a long playing career. When he’s in childish, immature mood it’s just a waste of time listening to. I find the whole station like that, a real curate’s egg, a mix of the sensible and the silly. 5Live is going the same way in their bid to attract a younger audience. People like Savage and Sutton clearly have the knowledge but prefer the childish approach, deliberately questioning everything and everybody just for the sake of it.
My favourite presenter is Adam Caterall, who is excellent on both football and boxing. He has good knowledge, and he lets his callers and guests talk without interrupting or putting them down. Cascarino is probably their best pundit (weekend breakfast) and he’s actually quite clued up on Watford. He described us earlier this season as being ‘either feast or famine’ which I think is a pretty good assessment.
The only time I listen to Talksport is when I'm on Twatter and someone retwats one of their controversial clips. These 30 second clips are a good reminder to never bother listening to that circus.
Yeah I can’t say I blame you.
The irony of course is to have us Watford fans outraged and posting about their comments about us sacking Munoz means they’ve achieved exactly what they wanted.
And of course to get fans texting in at 50p per message (although I think they've now just made it free to call in rather than ripping people off there too).
They’re quite skilled in having two presenters discussing something with both deliberately taking the opposite point of view (even if they clearly don’t believe the stance they’re being asked to take) just to stir up listeners to phone/text in to make some money for the station.
The reducing the PL to 18 clubs being a clear example of that.
Breathtaking arrogance from Ohara, although I’m not against the 18 team thing if the money was distributed more evenly down into the championship, and you didn’t get the cliff edge from 20th to 21st place. You would then actually get two more competitive, higher quality leagues, it wouldn’t solve his issue though as Norwich would still be a yo-you club, they would still be good enough to get promoted assuming it ended up 3 up 3 down, once the reduction was worked out.
But why is the current system Norwich’s fault? And why should they be obliged to risk financial oblivion every time they get promoted, just to keep that chubby little toad happy?
O’Hara is, of course a huge fan of that ‘nearly but not quite club’ Spurs. I venture to suggest that over the years fans of both Watford and Norwich have had much more fun supporting their clubs than he and others have following Spurs.
And any new club would have struggled with the games Norwich had..
Ok they were pretty poor against us too but wonder how they'd get on against Newcastle/Wolves home and Leeds away?
Probably perform better than we did!
He's actually right about Norwich, they truly are the skid mark on the Premier League's underpants.
If anything I quite like the negativity if I was Ranieri I would use it as extra motivation, I would go in and say to the players everyone in the country wants you to fail go and ******* shut them up.
Only thing that's a little frustrating is there is no real perspective to it all calling us embarrassing and disgusting but not much mention that we have been more successful than clubs twice our size and have had one of the most succesful periods in our entire history doing it.
Or that Chelsea regularly change Head Coaches too, even when winning things.
I dunno. If you are promoting a Man City game does it really matter if they are smashing up Watford or Forest? I get the case with Leeds but for Derby/Sheff Wed etc they are just cannon fodder like the rest of us mugs.