No, not the manager... Haven't seen a thread on it and just wondered what people's views were on the shooting and subsequent decision not to prosecute the policeman in the US and the subsequent rioting etc? No particular axe to grind, just wondering what people on here think (especially any Americans!) as the views are usually more considered than a lot of other forums, comment sections etc. Personally thought the Grand Jury might have felt compelled to have the case pursued, in order to prevent the inevitable problems, there must have been some pressure to do so. But presumably the same would have happened just at a later date if he had been prosecuted and not found guilty?
I don't think anyone other than Americans are surprised that their backwards gun culture spills into the police. I don't think it's a race issue either, purely a unfortunate product of the fact that many poorer areas have higher black populations. The most annoying thing about it all, and I felt the same during the North London riots, is that all these protesters have no idea where to target their anger. Why does their greivance with the government have to result in a local businessman having his shop looted or burned to the ground?
Do you think the looting and anger are correlated to that extent? I think it is less cause and effect and more opportune excuse.
animalistic behaviour. as mentioned above, they're mad at the cops so they burn down local businesses. logic...
The evidence around the case is conflicting. It does seem that there's a racial element. Why are the majority of police in a predominantly black community white? The blacks are convinced the police don't like them. Hopefully a dialogue will start with the authorities to address the issues properly. If not, expect plenty more 'rent a mob' activity and not only in Ferguson.
The issue shouldn't have anything to do with race, a police officer shooting an innocent man should never go unpunished.
Well not innocent, but he hardly deserved to be shot. It's not entirely clear what actually happened, upon reading up on it, but his crime didn't warrant being shot 6 times and/or in the head (especially if he had surrendered, although this is unclear) . The issues for me are with the gun laws. Watching the Interview with the Police officer is frightening, he doesn't even acknowledge that he made a mistake and doesn't show any remorse.
There was a fantastic episode of "The Daily Show" shortly after the first shooting. One of the items was that they had tried to carry out a piece of research for a routine where they needed to know the exact number of people shot by the police each year so approached a number of various law enforcement agencies (at federal and state levels) for some figures. Guess what - the figures don't exist (or are exceptionally closely guarded secrets). Not a single policing agency keeps records of how many people it shoots.
That is what makes this such an explosive issue in the US. Because the Police Officer is white then he must have been motivated by racism in the eyes of many in the black community. Equally, because the kid was black then many in the white community over there assume he must have been up to something that justified being shot. It may simply have been accidental, as I believe most would have assumed if the kid had been white. Ultimately I do trust the Grand Jury to have made an impartial evaluation of the evidence and the reaction by many in Ferguson seems to be motivated by as much by the opportunity to loot as anything.
You're not wrong. I've heard massively differing stories about what the young chap did, but somethings not adding up. Wilson originally made out he'd been attacked and his eye socket shattered:
Yeah it's all a bit shady and it appears many of the witnesses have changed their stories multiple times, which is a bit dodgy.
It's pretty obvious what the rioters are saying. It's summed up in the slogan 'No Justice, No Peace'. Shoot our children with impunity and we'll show you what a lawless world looks like. We are many and we will take what we want. Without question the U.S. Police do not have appropriate rules of engagement. How else do they end up shooting so many people who are unarmed? They are overly aggressive and trigger happy, in part a consequence of the ludicrous lack of gun control they face. And anyone who thinks race is not a factor is not dealing with a full deck. White people appear almost never called to account for shooting black people in America.
Do the American Police only shoot black people then? What happens when a white person gets shot dead?
All valid points but you cannot extend that logic to say all police killings of black people in the US are racially motivated and are therefore deliberate. We are only privy to whatever snippets of evidence mixed up with internet hearsay. Any opinions we have cannot be anymore than speculation. The Grand Jury has made it's decision IN THIS CASE based on all the evidence. Are they racist too? Should every cop who kills a civilian be jailed no matter what the circumstances. And if they are not do the community have a right to riot and loot? I am glad the UK police do not carry firearms as a rule because civilian shootings...accidental, justified and, yes, deliberate....are an inevitable consequence of doing so.
http://m.theatlantic.com/national/a...ard-for-whites-to-understand-ferguson/378928/ This article, and the article it quotes from the post, pretty much sums up my opinion on ferguson and also more or less any instance of a minority/woman (woman aren't minorities, but they get treated as such) feeling aggrieved while whitey says they're overreacting.
Some people on this forum have inconsistent attitudes. In this case, some posters suggest that that Grand Jury has made a mistake despite the fact that they are best placed to make a judgement from all the evidence. However, in the Ched Evans case, the same posters will argue that his guilt is indisputable because the jury is the best placed to make a judgement from all the evidence. I don't see why people trust a UK jury to get it right, but not the US Grand Jury (unless you are of the opinion that the Grand Jury itself is compromised by race considerations).
i think i saw one person on this thread criticise the decision, although if you want to draw a comparison between debating the outcome of a court case over rape and the decision not to have a court case over possible police misconduct, then go ahead.
I read your article and it was interesting. However, I assume by posting it then you have certain empathy with the rioters. So do you think: The Grand Jury simply got it wrong? The Grand Jury got it wrong because they want to protect white police officer? The Grand Jury got it right, but the people should riot in any case because of other discrimination they have suffered in daily lives? Perhaps I have misunderstood your sentiment.
considering my sentiment made no reference to a jury, or wrong/right decisions, or white police officers, or discrimination or anything that you want me to clarify at all (except for a link to an article which focuses entirely on perception and oponion forming (gaving been written and published before the grand jury decision)), i'd say you have massively misunderstood my sentiment. i was just contributing to the general discussion of 'if it was me, i'd act completely differently' i think maybe you've taken your own things to this e-table. unless of course you're saying its inconsistent of me to actively try and appreciate that as a white man i have completely different experiences of the world compared to rape victims and black americans? if so, yikes!
I'll ask again Jumbolina and you too Zed since you have both come up for air.....which posters are congratulating the Ched Evans' jury verdict whilst criticising the Grand Jury's decision here not to prosecute?
thanks for taking the time to provide me with this link. however I believe on further inspection of my post you may notice I had not mentioned race, so I don't know why you are bringing white people into it. racist
http://www.economist.com/blogs/demo...de&spv=xm&ah=9d7f7ab945510a56fa6d37c30b6f1709 also another decent summary i feel. particularly " Impunity is insidious. It makes it impossible for citizens to trust that in any given failure to prosecute, justice was done." there are lots of similarities between brasil and america, and hopefully both countries can put a stop to what are becoming fully-militarised and completely unaccountable public services
That may be true but I'm not convinced that this is the right case to have as a poster child for injustice. This comment at the end of the article sums it up well I think.... "I agree with this as far as it goes. However, I agree also with the commenters saying that this was certainly the wrong case to make the point about the racial dichotomy when it comes to the police. Look at the racial divide in public opinion over this case, never mind the grand jury. You had a large swathe of the media determined to paint a simple case of a white cop shooting an "unarmed black teenager" with his hands up, when the evidence -- including from credible black witnesses -- showed that was far from the case. As we all now know, Michael Brown weighed almost 300 lbs, was 6'4" tall, had just come from a strong-arm robbery at a convenience store. He had a history of violent criminal behavior. If such a white person had attacked a police officer, punched him in the face multiple times, and tried to grab his gun, would there have been any kind of outcry about police overreaction? Is there any indication that a white police officer would not have acted in the same way if the assailant was white? There are deep, deep rifts of a racial nature in society but the idea that it is all white privilege versus black victimization keeps us from properly analyzing the full causes and dealing with them. There are political influences on both sides who would rather that more difficult, more complicated route not be taken. But if it isn't, and if there aren't some brave sensible voices across the racial divide, then it will only get worse. Much worse."
This reminds me of the riots here over Mark Duggan's shooting Both are expressing genuine concerns/grievances but picking the wrong 'martyr' to lionise in the process
Grand Jury composition. 9 white, 3 black. Passing judgement on a shooting in a community which is predominantly black and where most of the police are white. And we don't know how the Grand Jury split.
