Chaos As Kabul Falls

Still can’t afford Andre Gray.

 

They're both stealing a living, though.

 

You got me m8.

 

Hope not....shouldn't tempt him to cross his faith.

 

Prejudgemental rubbish, every last word.

Every single one of us lives according to a world view, whether that is Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, atheism or even 'Idon'treallygivea****'ism. The vast majority within every world view are quite happy living their lives peacefully and respectfully and are quite happy for everyone who doesn't believe in what they do, to do likewise. Within the followers of every world view there are a minority who think theirs is better than others. Within that minority is another minority who are prepared to use violence.

It's that minority within the minority that gets the sensationalist and political agenda-driven headlines so often that people assume they must all be like that.

 

It's the minority within the minority within the minority that you have to be really wary of

 

Didn’t Kaboul already play for us? Never go back, especially if he’s now falling over.

 

Particularly the People's Minority Front of Minority Judea

 

Probably fairer to say "got paid by us", since he didn't do much playing.

 

Sadly, you are entirely right.

But any intervention will need to include Muslim states, too. As soon as the west gets involved on it's own it is accused of imperialism/colonialism and half the world will hope it fails again.

 

Well maybe you’d like to get over to Afghanistan and join the resistance?

So far, nearly 50 years of the World intervening has clearly made things worse. But let’s keep trying with the bombs and the napalm and the drones, the cruel and corrupt regimes we support, the internment camps, everything that comes with our own shocking behaviour.

The World needs to find a better way to intervene. Prosperous people will abandon fundamentalism.

 

As it should be accused.

You really like to avert your eyes don’t you? What is more barbaric than napalm or depleted uranium? Or wiping families out from an armchair in an airforce base? Or sending out lads halfway around the World to come back in body bags?

 

Well as something practical to do, I have just emailed the council to volunteer to work with refugees. Of course as a carer I am DBS checked anyway and I'm experienced from working with refugees and asylum seekers in Gloucester from years ago.

On the form you have to fill in, it asks why you want to volunteer. I put just that I am an internationalist and socialist.

 

I don't disagree with any of that. My point was simply that the religions themselves are cults started by someone with the claim of a hotline to God and an agenda.

It's humanity in general that means that thankfully people will interpret this stuff in a way that ignores the worst aspects of the madness laid down by their founders

 

Once the troops have moved out, hopefully someone will send the Taliban a strongly worded letter to tell them to behave in the future. I am sure they will listen to that type of intervention

 

Unfortunately if the US doesn't take action no one else either can or will.

It's a problem of the US own making for several reasons, not least the west has got used to not having to pay for military power because the US has provided it for everyone.

So the US can no longer be trusted and European nations have to start thinking for themselves. I can see this accelerating the idea of a European army.

 

I take your point but by starting with 'Islam is an vile, brutal controlling religion' you sort of set your stall out!

 

Very good but don’t you go radicalising any of these innocent civilians Clive .

 

Well yes, but I apply the same to all religions and was addressing the issues raised by the post I was quoting

 

Would you accept that atheism is just the same? And 'I don'treallygivea****'ism? Even though adherents of the latter erm... don't really give a ****, nasty stuff has been done by some of those who don't give a ****!

 

There are certainly some nasty militant atheists around.

I think any personal ethos or belief can be taken to extremes and radicalised when the right person is involved (just look at PETA/Ecoterrorists, for example). Religion certainly makes it easier, but I bet it wouldn't be impossible to e.g. radicalise a militant atheist to bomb religious buildings.

 

You've got to start somewhere. RP has been equally and more scathing of Christian sects when they have been the focus of the current debate.
BTW Atheism is not a religion. It is not a belief system. Is "themoonisnotmadeofcheeseism"a religion? There is no living your life according to atheism because it doesn't instruct you what to do. When people cite Stalin or Mao or whatever, those people did not commit their evil because they were atheists, but because they were evil. On the other hand, the crusades, the Cathars, Islamic terrorists, have all taken place under the excuse/instruction of the relevant religion.

 

It is a current religion's behavior that matters so reflecting or bringing up the past only serves as a cringing, desperate, "whataboutism"

What has the Christian Crusades (1096-1291) got to do with atrocities in the name of Islam in 2021?

As far as I know, there is only one modern-day religion that has openly and proudly announced expansionist intentions - and they are content to use any evil means to achieve it.

 

The point.
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You.

And if we think evil in the name of Jeebus is ancient history, today's Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-story-of-qc-who-pitilessly-abused-young-men

 

We all know that you're an old Etonian who got into socialism when you went to Nicaragua in your gap year

 

Blimey, trying to suggest that one nutter in the 1970's/80's that was secretly getting off on beating young boys has anything to do with the Taliban in 2021 or the crusades 1000 yrs ago, is a monumental stretch even for you.

Your logic gave me a laugh, though!

 

What is it about certain countries that they get invaded all the time? Poor Afghanistan is always getting invaded. Vietnam and Cuba the same.

And I have been to Nicaraguita too!

It was actually on Ometepe island in the middle of Lake Nicaragua. I'd just come back from a visit to the summit of Mount Concepción and I remember as I alighted from my litter, I remarked to nanny how jolly unfair it was that the native litter bearers' wages were so low!

I've been a firm communist and fan of Sir Kieth Starmer ever since!

 

(Serious head) Clive, please don't fall into the Tory trap of attacking a Labour leader who you think is too centrist/blairite. The Torys win by pretending to be united and moderate, then once in, the swivel-eyed crypto fascists take their chance and promote the sons and daughters of Mosley. Get a progressive government in, then lobby for the flavour of socialism that you would like to see.

 

Not quite up to your logic that demands more of the same after Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Guantanamo, renditions, wholesale destruction by air bombardment, assassinations, brutal regimes propped up, legacys of poisoned water, birth defects and fundamentalism….

And you want more. Priceless.

Getting into a froth about religion to justify it.

 

I'm not justifying anything, and as I have clearly said, I don't want more of the same. I want other Islamic countries to lead on bringing down the Taliban.

You can carry on trying your whatboutism as a sideways attempt at defending/hiding the atrocities behind the Taliban, and you can sit round your former leaders coffee table to have a chat with them, so maybe send a strongly worded letter as suggested above, but neither will work, and you belief that the Taliban will just settle down and act in a way that satisfies yourself, is more of an indication of your own low standards.

 

The usual nauseating reply. I’m not defending the Taliban in the slightest. I’d like to see their philosophy consigned to history.

But then it was never me who back in the 80s supported arming them and encouraging their fundamentalism. That would have been fans of Thatcher and Reagan. Doubtless you.

It’s going to be very hard to do that. The Chinese and Russians (ironically) will undermine attempts to rein them in. Our allies in the Middle East will further arm them. There is a need for complex dialogue on many levels, carrots and sticks, trade and development. The economy of the Country is about to collapse without US aid.

I know you find these things boring and would prefer B52s and body bags. But the problem is that while you have infidel invaders you have the reason for the Taliban’s existence.

However, it could yet end in civil war and when it does Biden and his advisors will have to answer whether they took sufficient precautions to protect weaponry. The UK Govt will probably be on holiday again.

 

A new level of stupid from the Spectator.

Forget any other factor, like the Saudi money encouraging Madrassas to spread violent jihad or the vested interests of weapons companies and others seeking a buck, no, corruption and resentment in Afghanistan arose from initiatives to help women.



https://spectatorworld.com/topic/did-gender-studies-lose-afghanistan/

 

The idea will be accelerated but still won't happen.

 

I am not an expert in military stuff . However as Afghanistan is landlocked who the fugg\ how the fugg
are the Talitubis being armed or dealing with the complex world of military logistics ? . Which of their neighbours is allowing arms across their borders ? Of course this could always be the plan of Sleepy Joe Biden and the " we never saw this coming " ......."let's go to war " ......surely not