1 up front doesn't work.

This is the positive approach. We'll be adopting the negative approach at Man City, 5-5-0, with no forwards.

 

Not only that but yesterday his lay-offs were awful. Nearly every one underhit or overhit and rarely in the desired direction. I was amazed he lasted 90 minutes.

 

Isn't he playing as part of a two pronged goal force with Josh King?

 

that would be Mr Vydra, then

 

Fair enough. Extrapolated over the whole season that's 38 points near enough compared to our current form of drawing every game so similar points. Sunderland stayed up last year with 38 on the back of only 7 wins and 17 draws. Their points total was the same in 2013/4 when they finished 14th.

The aim is to stay up so as long as we track that type of points return after each batch of say six games that should be our minimum " worry factor" as for the entertainment factor well ........

 

and they were robbed at Anfield after outplaying Liverpool....where their exceptional pace up front once again caused problems

 

Exactly.

 

Nolite itaque amittere fidem. Animi corporisque omnipotens.

 

When we've got 8 points over the season from Chelsea, the Manchesters and Arsenal I'll hold my hand up. If we don't, we'll need to beat some of the lesser lights more often than we lose to them.

 

Josh King plays 'behind' Wilson in he same way Ighalo has been with Deeney. It isn't the system, how many teams play 2 up front as their primary formation?

We're forming a solid base, as well as coming up against two defensively superb sides who's main objective was to not concede. As Koeman said yesterday, if you want to be successful, defensive organisation is the first port of call. Hence why he went very defensive yesterday, with 3 CBs and 2 CDMs. It's weird how no-one is praising our defence, which for two home games in a row has been absolutely impeccable.

 

I agree, i thought i would never hear the words solid defence and Watford in the same sentence but for the first time in a fair few seasons i can say our defence is looking very solid. However i do agree the fact Deeney is struggling as he is finding himself with no support at times. Deeney is at his best when Ighalo is within just a few yards of him, the quick passing and movement between them broke down defences. Our system just means Ighalo will have to work harder to support him. I also think it is vital Anya is in the midfield three as in the 2nd half against Southampton we were lacking decent crosses into the box as Anya was moved to left back.

All in all we have the squad to stay in the Premier league but we need to be better in the final third. Capoue's header/shoudler springs to mind.

 

Josh King is playing in behind, like Kermogant did last season.

 

You've done it now. We're going to concede at least one to Preston.:doom:

 

Once QSF stops this silly trial with the black goal nets, we'll start scoring again.

 

Racist!






:]]

 

We've tried Deeney + Ighalo for 2 games and it's all a bit flat so I don't really get the call for 2 strikers

I tend to think if you play 2 DMs then you have to play an accomplished AM ahead of them and behind a lone striker otherwise you end up with a bit of a dead zone without creativity and poor link back to front and side to side

Deeney or Ighalo (either works but not both)
Jurado Abdi Berghuis (if he has the stamina otherwise Anya / Diamanti)
Capoue Behrami

What is important is the 3 AMs are very fluid in possession

 

Here are the various formations used by teams over the weekend:

Home:

Crystal Palace: 4-2-3-1
Leicester: 4-4-2
Man United: 4-2-3-1
Norwich: 4-2-3-1
Sunderland: 4-3-1-2
Watford: 4-2-3-1
WBA: 4-1-4-1
West Ham: 4-3-2-1
Everton: 4-2-3-1

Away:

Aston Villa: 4-4-2
Bournemouth: 4-4-1-1
Chelsea: 4-2-3-1
Man City: 4-2-3-1
Newcastle: 4-2-3-1
Southampton: 3-4-1-2
Spurs: 4-2-3-1
Stoke: 4-2-3-1
Swansea: 4-2-3-1

There is clearly no shortage of teams playing 4-2-3-1 at home and many of them are doing quite well on the scoring side.

It's not the formation that's the issue. It's the lack of squad familiarity that's killing our attacking prowess and that will come with time.

Ighalo is also not effective as part of the 3, and that's a big part of why Deeney is having issues. As LTC said, with this formation it's either Ighalo or Deeney, but not both.

Abdi or Diamanti would likely be far more effective in the central position behind the forward. I actually think Forestieri - Abdi/Diamanti - Jurado could be very effective. Jurado looked a lot better once he moved to the right yesterday, and Nando has always been decent when cutting in from the left.

EDIT: what we really need behind the forward is a player who plays in a similar way to they way Fabbrini has been used for Boro: pinpoint through balls, running with the ball through the middle, forcing free kicks in dangerous places and taking shots when they're open.

 

FFS one up front 'works' for the majority of teams in this league. 4-2-3-1 is by far the most used formation. I can confidently predict that if we started playing around with two up front, we would be getting tonked by teams most weeks. That's why barely anybody does it.

All that is missing is a bit of cohesion and confidence in front of goal. That's it. Unsurpisingly it hasn't entirely come together in three games. But it will, I can see signs of it already.

This is the first time I've been on this forum today, mainly because I'm completely stunned and a little embarrassed by how quickly so many people are starting to turn on QSF and certain players. Three games in and Vicarage road is already a near silent ground full of short tempered men shouting instructions at the players. This forum is full of misery. It's all just embarrassing. An eight year wait for Premier League football and that is your response? The miserable ****s deserve the Championship as far as I'm concerned.

 

Great post.

 

Let me clarify, It doesn't work for us with Deeney, yet.

 

M

Well said people need to wind their necks in and enjoy the ride idiots calling deeney fat and lazy makes me f in mad, they want to remember who got us to this position, there will be some aggro amongst our own with the idiots amongst us. You know who you are

 

I thought we played one up front at Everton and then brought Igloo on for last 15- I think we scored then

Maybe at home to try and please the fans and show intent we start with two up front and heyho given the valid points made including the unfamiliarity of the team going forward at least and two good defences we have been unable to unlock them save for a few half chances in both games

 

It's absolutely incredible but it doesn't suprise me anymore. Thoroughly depressing.

 

So the thread title is very misleading, then.

 

Formation is a problem though.

SO many times that Jurado had the ball and had nobody to give it to in the middle. Capoue came to receive it when could but other than that, there was nobody who would come collect it and try to play a killer pass, too often it was *Jurado receive* *Give to Nyom* *Played forward to Jurado* it got very predictable very quickly.

Ighalo is meant to be in that position but he naturally wants goals and drifts forward which results in him and Deeney being in the same position literally playing next to each other.

 

Having seen how we work in 4-2-3-1, I think Gestede would have actually been a fairly decent signing.

Think of all those balls into the box from wide. We whip a lot of balls in from Diamanti, Jurado and Anya. Gestede would bury a few.

 

4-4 ****ing 2

 

By the way, I've only read a little on here on my phone, but to suggest people are turning on the coach or the team seems hysterical.

There are some questions being asked of our system and selection, which is pretty much the sausage and beans of a footie forum.

 

Don't know if anyone else has said this. I think this whole defensive stability thing is a bit of a myth. Against Everton we conceded two. West brom are the worst team to play at the vic in a very long time and actually should have scored after berahino missed a sitter, saints have nothing upfront (especially after mane came off) and were a team lacking any confidence as well as coming off a Thursday night game. They still went very close on a couple of occasions.
Also anya is not good enough going forward, he wasn't in the champ and he isn't now he has zero end product and doesn't get his crosses past the first man in 95% of occasions. He has pace fine, but there must be players out there who have pace and can even averagely cross the ball? Or even just beat the defender once.

 

Exactly

Don't play Ighalo behind Deeney, play a central AM


Seems to me our plan A should be.....

St
Am Am Am
Dm Dm

and plan B should be Vydra....

St St
wm Dm Dm Wm

 

Funny, I seem to remember Anya crossing the ball for Ighalo to score only for him to miss it completely.

Still, must have been Anya's fault for putting too much right-hand English on the ball.