Linesman flagged it at the time that's why I thought he was off. From that still, that's Janmaat's fault for being behind the rest of the defensive line. Prodl is only responsible for what he can see in the direction he's looking, and everyone else was holding the line and playing Ake offside. He can't be held responsible for Janmaat playing him on behind him. Probably shouldn't have been holding his shirt though!
Liked - but I question the bit about the crosses: It's partly right, but the penalty box is almost devoid of targets, so the cross has to be perfect or it's nothing. Mobility and shoot-on-sight in the penalty area very badly needed in this squad. (But, of course, it tends to be expensive).
Prodl is also ahead of Deeney, Holebas and Mariappa who are to his left. Doucoure - who is to the right of Prodl together with Janmaat - is also level with Ake. Janmaat in particular has made a mistake in dropping so far back, but it is also clear that Prodl has been caught flat-footed and ball watching, with no idea of where the rest of the defensive line is either to the left or the right of him.
But I imagine everyone around you realised Hughes and Kiko are both returning from significant injuries which have had them out for months and their game time needs to be managed for now. Their withdrawals were entirely predictable. I expect they'll be able to play more next week as a result. Fact is if the team defend a routine long free kick from the opposition half we win.
Interesting picture. A Bournemouth player has his hands on Deeney's back, their no. 13 has ? by the arm or back, Prodl has Ake's shirt and their no. 4 is wrestling ? from behind. Which one should the ref blow his whistle for? Result = he lets it all go. Nightmare job, he can't win.
On the point of showing this picture: Janmat is guilty of playing Ake and no 4 onside. But he's end of the line and may well have difficulty seeing what's happening to the ball. And he is the only Watford player who can be credited with being goal-side of his player. These are some of the perils of trying to play the offside trap. Long-term persistant and capable coaching needed, plus some better defenders.
What I actually said was "Very little has been done since promotion on upgrading the defence." which I think is a fair opinion. If you that that is absurd, then fair enough, but I don't think it is. It doesn't mean we've not signed defenders, but we've just got a collection of players that were no better than what we had in the Championship. Is Holebas a major upgrade on Pudil? Kaboul, Prodl, Britos, Kabasele are all of a muchness. None are better than Cathcart or Mapps. We just signed a lot of players of the same level to what we already had. I don't think they are any better than Angella or Ekstrand. The only area where we've upgraded in right wing back. Kiko is a significant improvement on Janmaat, who himself was a slight upgrade on Nyom. The left side was improved when we signed Ake on loan and played him there. Holebas was only a backup player in our debut season, and he is an acceptable backup. But he's been first choice for two seasons now, and this should not be the case for a progressive club. Zeegelaar does not even get on the bench, so has to be considered a mistake. A 4 year deal is going to be a problem shifting him. I don't think anyone in England would take him, and other European clubs would probably struggle with the salary.
I tried to take a slightly alternative look at yesterday's game in my latest blog, A View From Row Z. In Praise of Will Hughes. He was Watford’s most eye-catching player yesterday, and not just because he has hair brighter than the sun. https://www.greatestwatfordwins.com/blog
This is our starting position before Bournemouth scored. Deeney is out wide covering their wide man. Janmaat is tight to his player, but what is Cathcart doing? Who is he covering? Ake is his man in this moment. Deeney sees the danger, leaves his man and comes across to challenge Ake, but on the wrong side. Cathcart is still rooted to the spot. Ake wins the header because his position is better than Deeney's. Cathcart is still marking no one. Also, look at the gap between Mapps and Holebas, where Defoe is standing, for the next phase of the attack. Mapps is too deep and keeps Defoe onside. Holebas against is nowhere near any player. He's let Defoe go completely. Back of the net.
And if our defenders had been concentrating on their jobs rather than being indignant about the foul given against Okaka, they might not have conceded the second goal
Exactly this. I’d actually say that Angella was better than any CB we currently have. While I agree that many of us are content to be mid-table in the PL, the club owners continually talk of the club looking to progress and challenge for European spots. For us to make any great strides as a team that progresses beyond where we are now, significant investment is needed in the defence. And from reading the finely balanced accounts that were published the other day, I’m not sure we have the means to do that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a club replace most of their defence in one window. We may get one great defender as I’m sure the club can see what is needed most on the pitch. Whether that one player would be enough to raise the standards of those around him would be interesting. We have already seen that Holebas doesn’t respond well to criticism. I would be looking to get a CB and a LB as top Summer priorities. With Kiko and Kabasele, that would be a start.... In other news, I went to Hertha Berlin vs Wolfsburg last night at the Olympic Stadium. Such luminaries as Salomon Kalou were on show. Two points - if we were in the Bundesliga, we’d be in the top 2 or 3 behind Bayern and Dortmund if the Standard last night was any indication. Absolutely awful. But the atmosphere puts to shame any other that I’ve been in. Totally unreal.
Deeney doesn't get goalside (essential when defending) misjudges the flight and gets outjumped. We don't know what the communication was. Did Deeney just leave his man? Maybe, Deeney called for the header which meant Cathcart dropped off - if he calls it, he has to make it. Getting touch tight isn't always the best way to mark, if they're aiming for Ake, then Cathcart can see him and get a running jump - easier to get height than a static jump. Bottom line, it was poorly defended all round.
Holebas and Janmaat are first choice. Injuries aren't putting them in the side. You have rather sexed up our defensive transfer business as most of those signed are the wrong side of 30 and free or as near as dammit. If we can pay 12m for a Bailey's swinging winger who isn't even in our squad then why shouldn't we priorities some defenders with some of our budget? It's a mistake imo brought about by short sightedness.
Probably because the potential to make profits on a defender/goalkeeper isn’t that great when compared to midfielders and strikers.
That was my point. The strategy is flawed. Defenders don't make sexy 100m players but can still be bought and traded for profit, but more importantly they provide a fundamental role in a team. As pointed out elsewhere, if we'd defended better in a few key games, we'd be in a Europa position right now, with all the additional prize money and revenue that brings.
Yup. We have enough ‘project’ players at the club. And we also have enough cheap alternatives. If we don’t have the finances to buy a defender or two who are quality, that’s fair enough. But as pointed out elsewhere, that would be strange given the money we spend on players like Success/Penaranda etc only to have them playing (or not) elsewhere.
You can blame quite a few players for that last goal. Deeney for getting beaten by Ake. But then Mariappa & Holebas for not covering and Doucoure looking at the first screenshot should of tracked Defoe's run and not ball watched - which also a few players did. Also could argue the goalie could of come out quicker / been in a better position. As for our centre back problem. We need someone who is commanding. Prodl for such a big guy doesn't dominate enough physically or in the air. The stats may say different but I always feel more confident that Mariappa will win more in the air than him. Another thing that pisses me off about Prodl is the fact for such a big guy he gets turned and out muscled soo easily! Reminds me of Angella - fair too soft. But to be fair he made some great trackles yesterday. I wish Kaboul wasn't soo injury prone, because for me I know most of you disagree but in a back four he is our best defender. Decent pace for a big guy, strong in the air and has power - doesn't get outmuscled. He is mistake prone every now and then but if he wasn't he would be playing at a much higher level like he used to. I always see people say Kabasele is our best defender - that says it all, he has decent pace but still think he's a back up at best. I don't like the fact he turns his back and he isn't strong enough. Alot of things that make him look good such as the late ditch slide tackles come from his poor defending originally. I'm pretty sure if he wasn't such a good & funny guy on social media people would 'slag' him off more like they do if say Britos, Mapps make the same kinda mistakes he does. Will Hughes is a class player. Our best player on the ball along with Chalobah & Clevs. Soo good at finding space between the lines, keeping the ball and picking the right pass. No doubt if he keeps playing to this standard - technically good enough to get in the England squad. With more pace / runners going forward he will be even more dangerous. Also gotta mention Bobby P is getting back to his old self.
I'm not saying that our defence is better than it is. My only issue is with the suggestion that the club hasn't done anything, or is blind to the problem. Holebas is first choice because we failed to get our targets of Robertson and Gibbs and brought in a dud at the last minute. A poor transfer yes, but not brought about by inaction on the matter. Janmaat is only first choice because Femenia has been injured, or our attacking options are so weak that we're better off playing Femenia as RW and suffering Janmaat. A back-line of Gibbs, Kabasele, Wague, Femenia is half decent, I'm not sure many would complain with that this season. It didn't work out for various reasons, but again, the club has tried to improve. Not very well mind, but it's been made much worse by the injury situation.
Interesting. What are your judgement criteria? From sitting in the stands, you can only interpret their body language. Or do you have other special powers, HB1? My interpretation of the body language of Richarlison, Deeney, Doucs, Femenia, Okaka,and Karnezis, for example, is that their desire and attitude isn't lacking at all. Where have I gone wrong?
We can talk about players we didn't sign, but I'm looking at the ones we did sign. And Wague is such a solid option that he wasn't even deemed worthy of a squad place. We've bought a defence on the cheap and got our money's worth
I mean that's fine, but I was originally addressing a point that said the club is blind to the problem, and I'm of the opinion that if the club was linked with multiple left backs then it's aware of that problem. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're arguing against a point I never made.
In my view Cathcart is our best central defender, with Prodl, Mariappa and Kabasele decent options if we have nobody better coming in. Don't rate Kanoul and Britos is over the hill. I like the Janmaat/Femenia combo.on the right but don't like any of the left back alternatives
Had you said something along the lines of: "The club has made very little progress on upgrading the defence since promotion" I would agree entirely. I took "Very little has been done since promotion on upgrading the defence", and "The fans can all see the defensive deficiencies but I think the club are blinded to it", to mean that you thought the club was not aware of the defensive issues, or had made no movement to address this. It's always easy to look back and judge the club's transfer window during the season. At the end of the 15/16 and 16/17 seasons I think the club was right to prioritise strengthening attack. The club chose to try and improve defence too, but on the cheap---it didn't work out.
Sorry, but this whole analysis is just ridiculous. You're looking at snapshots and criticising players for where they're standing at a given split-second - with no appreciation of how they've got there, or why they were originally where they were. For example, Mapps has made a run to track a man - that's why he looks "too deep" in this snapshot. Holebas hasn't "let Defore go completely". Earlier, Doucs was the man closest to Defoe, possibly with responsibility to cut out a ball to him, but now you're implying that Holebas - who now looks nearer - was responsible all along. You're making it up, HB1. Please stop.
Femenia aside, a back 4 including Kabasele, Wague and Gibbs is relegation standard all thing being equal.
All the best defences are well-coached ones. Maybe keeping a known good defensive coach would improve things. Most of our current defenders have good qualities, but they all also have weaknesses and each one seems to be capable of a couple of serious mistakes each game. In fact this sums up the defence as a whole: time after time I've watched them and they are doing OK -- and then suddenly they get in a muddle or somebody switches off and they concede. Maybe Holebas could stop giving us schmutter football, retire and concentrate on the schmutter business. A couple of the others are over the hill. But I still think the coaching could be improved. That is not necessarily a criticism of Javier, by the way - he has been brought in late and will be playing catch-up in several ways. My jury is still out on him, but his primary job was making sure we didn't get relegated, and he's very close to succeeding. I would guess defensive coaching entails consistent, good-quality work over a long period of time. Coaches don't last long at Watford and we have never had a tight defence under the Pozzos. Just saying.
You're quite possibly right, Jimmy, but the ball still ended up in the back of the net. I imagine defending against premiership players is complicated and difficult, but Watford concede more goals than practically anybody else. Us amateurs are just trying to understand it.
I think what I said is entirely accurate. If you do not agree with it, that's fine, but just to make a slight twist in wording is a bit strange. Too many times people scrutinise every single word someone writes to try to pick it apart. I see very little difference in the sentiment between a phrase you would agree with and the one I had written. "The club has made very little progress on upgrading the defence since promotion" or "Very little has been done since promotion on upgrading the defence". To me they mean exactly the same thing, although maybe I'm missing something as my English is not always perfect.
Watch it for real then, if stills are not enough for you https://www.watfordfc.com/teams/first-team/match-report-watford-2-2-bournemouth, and it tells the exact same story. Cathcart should have attacked the ball but didn't, making Deeney have to come across and do his job for him. The gap between Mapps and Holebas is way too big. Nobody followed Defoe's run. Mapps was too deep and kept Defoe onside. These are all facts. The stills are just there to help tell the story. Doucoure ran part way with Defoe and stopped on the edge of the box. It's Holebas' job to be in there with the striker. Who is he marking? No one, nor is Cathcart. They were both passengers for this goal. I guess you wasn't at the game or haven't even seen it on TV yet, but please do. If you think I'm making it up, then please tell me where I got it wrong and we can take it from there. We've conceded 57 goals in 32 games this season. Which is joint second worst in the league. You can deny it all you like, but it's the truth. Just look at the league table it will confirm that. The reason for it is because we defend without organisation, commitment or desire. This is just my opinion before you fall out of your armchair in rage.
