In some good news though thanks to Gerrit I’ve been unable to go out all day and therefore haven’t been exposed to any Bristol City fans where I live * I almost wrote that I haven’t exposed myself to any, but that might have sounded a bit dodgy and unlawful.
Jumbo’s summery is bang on, whereas your intervention is unnecessary and muddies the water with a nonsense spin.
I personally agree with this, what do some supporters want.Plenty of clubs in the championship have overspent much worse than us and are in a much worse financial position than us be careful what you wish for Pozzo in.
He spent most of his time in midfield. Modern inverted full-back if you want to be kind, forgetting what he was supposed to be doing if you don't. And since the left-winger was their best player, Asprilla was our most effective defender.
It’s almost like you’re 2 years too late and posting the same thing the so called ‘bed wetters’ were posting then . ( I don’t recall you being one of them, but maybe you were . ) Of course much of what they said about constantly changing managers being an issue has been proven correct , given we have stuck with the current manager and it appears to be yielding an all round better feel, along with trimming the squad down to players who largely want to be there . So it’s strange you’ve suddenly decided to ‘wet the bed’ at a time when there appears to have actually been a reset and some sensible decisions made for the first time in years. Maybe it’s because the original bed wetters are very quiet and clearly biding their time to see if this is a false dawn , before coming back with a vengeance . So you feel you need to fill the ‘ wetting ‘ Space with some of the usual repetitive stuff as the forum is far too positive ?
He wasn't one of them - pretty sure one of the other recent times he made a wacky prediction about our season when all the signs pointed to something different and which he clung on to right to the end was in thinking that we would somehow stay up during our last PL relegation season. As I pointed out a few months ago, HB1 basically just started copying almost word for word what Jumbo was saying last season.
You have produced an utterly simplistic post. It’s quite possible to give credit to Ismael, find some of the players likeable and be encouraged that they didn’t sack him early on while simultaneously remaining disgusted by the ownership and the management of the club from a longer term perspective. And do we really need to keep going with the playground “wetter” stuff? Surely the demise of the team 5 years ago to the current squad combined with financial mismanagement are enough to suggest concerns at that time were not completely unfounded.
Maybe. You may well be right. However, you said: "I really don’t understand what people are finding confusing about the HB position." i've endeavoured to help you understand that the main issue people are disagreeing with is his comments on the team. i think you maybe don't understand because you are conflating it with the wider issue of ownership which has not been the major issue of debate. Its really very simple. I hope this is helpful but if not please ignore.
In the last 16 games played on Boxing Day ( excluding obviously 2010 and 2012 when we didn’t play on 26th) we have been at home 14 times winning 4 losing 6 - including Bristol city which was 2-4 in 2008) and drawing 4. The 2 times we played away -in 2019 and 2015 -the matches were drawn Just saying
Considering HB1 agreed with my summary I’d suggest I’ve understood his position pretty well. So no - your attempts to muddy the water despite all evidence to the contrary are not helpful to anybody.
I can’t be held responsible for obtuse readers. Maybe I should add pictures to help as the written word can be challenging for some.
With regards to your questions in paragraph one, only time will tell, we will see! however I do want to ask you a question on the last sentence of the paragraph. What kind of evidence will make you believe we have turned the corner? Do I trust the owner? not really, but unless it's SEJ as chairman again i'm not going to trust any owner , so better the devil you know on that front. Dishonest? they can't be 100% transparent, but I don't believe they intentionally carry out any action that will purposefully damage the club. Incompetent? I can understand this one! they have made a lot of mistakes the last few years, but i'm starting to see some green shoots this season, for example, sticking with the manager, a youth player now our first choice RB, etc. The biggest losers are the owners themselves. The value of the club in 2019 was a hell of a lot more then now.
You're still missing the point - HB1 "agreed" with your summary because: a) it sounded more consistent and coherent than anything he himself had actually written on any of the topics covered; b) it ignored one of the main bones of contention with HB1's posts this season whereby he was supposedly consistently convinced we were in real jeopardy of getting relegated, and he also bombastically claimed he was basically the only poster who made this prediction. To top it all off he prematurely posted that he was correct after the Sunderland game, then flip-flopped only a few days ago to say that he was wrong and we won't be relegated, only to flip-flop back again and claim he was consistent and correct all along. So of course he was going to cling to your post like a life raft. Further to this, I don't know why you don't take more umbrage with the fact that HB1 has basically copied your whole schtick this season, and I also don't know why you didn't find it strange that he was sticking to it even after we seemed to have turned a corner and were playing with enough passion and commitment that even you had seemed to start enjoying our games a bit again. And now not only is HB1 copying your old schtick, but you're even feeding him his lines.
Hopefully you’re free to act as his interpreter going forward. I sense you’ll be called upon again before the week is out…
I find the whole "Bed wetters" v "CoG" grouping needlessly antagonistic, dividing and harms all discussions here nowadays because it turns almost tribal when trying to discuss more nuanced points. Although I've disagreed with HB1 on some points this year he also has valid points that I agree with related to the same point as well or the points you raised in yours. We're a much "healthier" side in attitude and application on the pitch but why did it take us having 2 relegation and stripping ourselves of superb talent we had previously to get there? Why is it we had to saddle ourselves in near crippling debt and have to pay millions upon millions in severance fees before we finally settled upon sticking with a head coach the club actually wanted? Why did it allow player power to become such that managers were afraid / unwilling to instill a professional culture that should have been standard? This Season is a very good start in a view of finally getting the club back into a sustainable, healthy footing but it was unforgivably reckless, short sighted, foolish and dangerous how the ownership have let the club's standards and operations degrade to this point on and off the pitch. What we're seeing thie season is the minimum standard any professional club should operate towards. I have happily recognised the work VI has done as being above average and that the mentality of the squad is above average I think compared to a lot of squads but the principle of allowing the manager time and giving them proper authority to ensure discipline is maintained and allowing them to pick a squad on merit than reputation to appease the ownership shouldn't be heralded as a novel idea we've only just discovered but as something we should never allow ourselves to lose again.
i don’t think that’s an entirely fair or reasonable response. But i respect your right to ignore the points ive made and make insinuations about me.
To answer your question, if I see ambition, signing players for a purpose who can do the job of challenging at the top end of the league, maybe then I will consider we are really building something, and not just lip service filling the squad with the cheapest players they can find from Mogi’s little black book. So far I don’t believe anything has changed. Retaining VI is not proof of anything , imo. But if they start investing sensibly then maybe things could be going in the right direction. All I’m seeing is a mass clear out, and a begrudging spend on a fairly poor striker and a winger we didn’t need. That’s not a plan, it’s just the cheapest way to do things at every turn.
Im not sure what your point is but your evidence is certainly compelling. I appreciate your use of the word candidly. Thank you.
It is exactly the definition of doom mongering. That's like saying an orange is not orange in colour. Also, if you think that the negative attitude was restricted to only last season, you are clearly delusional.
We've not had a Forum 'flounce' for far too long now!!! If I remember correctly, a certain '32,00 posts' poster was the last one to flounce ( a 'forever' flounce, I believe, was stated at the time?)? And as for the game, whenever it was, against Bristol City, I'm currently worrying more about the fact that I can't remember what the 'unlucky' drink was that I was drinking during the game. I think it may have been Spanish bubbles; that would tie in nicely with putting all the blame at the 'numero uno flouncer's' door. However... Over the Festive Period I have also consumed copious amounts of whiskey and whisky. So... Against Stoke, it's probably back to vino tinto...
I agree with pretty much all of your post. But the principle of allowing a manager time is becoming increasingly unusual as illustrated by the fact we have one of the longer serving managers in the division. Just an ironic observation rather than disagreeing with anything.
Seriously? You're having a pop at me for saying that the main point being debated has been about you saying the team has been 5h1te? No one has been fundamentally been disagreeing about criticism of the ownership. Its totally bizarre given your advocating providing honest opinions and how you say you don't launch personal attacks. I genuinely thought you were seeking to encourage debate.
My cousin, with whom I had a difficult childhood relationship, was a bed wetter. He had to sleep with a crinkly waterproof sheet under the top sheet. He has since grown up and founded a charity for underprivileged teens which has grown nationally. And he has been recognised with an OBE. I have never wet the bed, and I have never founded a charity either. Food for thought perhaps.
Amazing effort Forumers. 8 pages in and the pain of a big home defeat long gone thanks to these fine efforts. Bravo.
Jumbo summary which is 100% accurate I really don’t understand what people are finding confusing about the HB position. 1) owner/management are dishonest, incompetent and run the club for their own ends (in my opinion) 2) due to their poor performance they have by financial necessity arrived at a lower bottom half championship squad just 4 years after being an established premier league team. 3) Our fans are generally docile and easily led by the management which allows (1) to continue with little accountability 4) All that said, the manager is currently doing a fantastic job with the squad he has been given, and yes the owners/management deserve some credit for not continuing their hire/fire policy of the last decade when things started poorly. And agreed one result doesn’t change that. If you don’t agree and are happy with direction of travel then good for you, But the above isn’t remotely controversial. Pob summary (nonsense spin) The main point being argued on the match threads is HB1s view that the team is 5h1t and bottom 6 relegation candidates who have simply been lucky and who should be booed. The stuff about the owners is a separate issue that has been debated lots and there are numerous separate threads on that. I understand that there is an interdendancy between the 2 issues and can see why you would wish to conflate them but you really are missing the point and providing a distorted summary that misses the crux of hb1s position that some people disagree with. So, whereas Jumbo has been fair and accurate, you have deliberately distorted the true meaning of what I am saying to fit your agenda. I will call out this type of activity for what it is, but of course you sensationalise again by calling it a “personal attack” when it’s nothing of the sort, only the truth which you clearly don’t like reading. But I’m drawing a line under this now, as the usual suspects are coming on in their droves with their own stored up vendettas to wade in. So be it. Personally, I find you an ok poster, but on this occasion felt it necessary to manipulate the truth to win a point. It’s an old forum trick but I’m not really interested in those games anymore. I will continue to post honestly, without bias, be it good bad or indifferent. That’s how it should be. After all, we’re all fans of Watford and should be getting along. Alternative views should be debated in a respectful way, and not deliberately manipulated to cause anxiety and rows. Far too much hate in social media and it’s not healthy for anyone.
