I don't love Troy, I think you can respect his worth as a captain but 4 goals in 58 ? in open play says it all.
Of course they are a better team with better players. But as far as I can remember, our mistake gifting them the first goal excepted, they only created one clear cut chance in the first hour, the one that Hazard missed and Foster barely had to make any saves. Any team can knock thee ball around for 20 passes without moving it forward or creating chances. Sanchez's and Mazzarri's Watford teams did that for hours on end and created about the same number of chances. We obviously have different definitions of "outplayed".
One of the few games in the last couple of years where we've lost and it hasn't bothered me in the slightest. It wasn't long ago where we were paying teams like this too much respect and getting battered 5-0, that's in the past now and this is a sign of how far we've come.
I think you may have a different definition to ‘outplayed’ than most of the media outlets and most of the honest fans on here. Saying we were second best isn’t tearing into the way we played. Hazard’s 1st, the penalty, William hitting the post twice, Kante going close late on, the shot that went through Foster, Hazard missing the ball in the six yard box when flashed across goal....all good chances. They created a lot so let’s not pretend they didn’t.
All this ‘Chelsea are a one-man-team’ talk... Compared to the title winning sides that had Lampard, Terry, Drogba etc they are. But Kante, Azpilicueta, Alonso and Jorginho were all good performers last night, especially Kante. To think some people compared Doucoure to him...
We were outpassed and outpossesioned. The problem with this is - we only have 35% of the ball. The opposition cant score when you possess the football, whilst chelsea were mostly contained, they were in control. Also when we have the ball and give it straight back 50% of the time the amount of possesion we have is reduced to a point where we were pretty toothless ourselves in the main.
No I wouldn't, and I doubt many others calling for Quina would. Quina does need to play, as part of a midfield 3 with Capoue and Doucoure, not wide. Root of the problem remains not having an all round #9 at this level meaning we go 2 up top in a 442. I say not having, what I mean is TD as first choice. Success has shown signs of being the #9 we need but needs games. With a 442 we can't fit 3 in the middle. Playing 442 means there are games, like yesterday, we get overloaded and overrun in the middle. 451 / 4231 / 433 solves it but Gracia hasn't shown any interest in anything other than 442.
Just did a quick look at the stats for who is involved in our goals, scoring or assisting. If you then look at the minutes played for each you get some interesting stats. The top 3 are as expected, but some of the others are not as expected. You will be pleased to see TD is only 8th in the list.
Which media outlets are saying we were outplayed then? Most of what I've read says it was a hard-fought win for Chelsea against a competitive Watford side.
1. Don’t think it was an obvious penalty for us. But if at the other end would have been given. 2. Deeney took an elbow from one of their defenders that could have been a red and the commentators just laughed it off because Deeney can take it providing “he can give an elbow back......only one? (Hearty ha ha ha)”. ******* 3. Kabs was heroic. If Hazard had been on target he would have saved a goal. Hope people cut him some slack after the Everton debacle. Really hope he’s ok. 4. Agree with majority of other comments thus far especially in terms of 2 obvious transfer requirements. 5. I’m always disappointed to see Okaka on the bench as it makes me fear we may keep him. 6. What’s going on with Chalobah?
A fair point as none specifically say outplayed but the majority do report what you say above while giving the narrative that we were second best.
Spot on. I mentioned the formation a couple of weeks ago and that it should match our strengths. Our strength is our midfield and with Cleverley and hopefully Chalobah to come that's where we should focus on. 4-5-1 that morphs into 4-3-3 would be my ideal formation but unless we change from 4-2-2-2 I'm not sure Quina fits in
Kabasele has tweeted... @chriskabasele27 Good morning everybody .Hopefully nothing broken but still have big pain Great gesture of the goal post who visited me at hospital Thank you for your messages I hope to be back as soon as possible #watfordfc
Very good table and it really underlines what most can see with the naked eye. Deeney, Success and Gray are not doing enough in terms of scoring or providing chances. Other aspects of their play is good, however, we've been relying on a plentiful supply of 'wonder goals' this season, which in itself is unusual. What is so strange is that we only have an ability to score this type of goal. We never seem able to finish the most basic of opportunities. There seems to be a squad wide nervousness when we get near the goal. We tend to take an extra touch, or try to make an unnecessary final pass. There are far to many clumsy attempts to control the ball at the vital moment or the ball is rarely hit cleanly when they shoot. It's extremely frustrating to watch, as Watford are as good as anyone in the Premier League, bar the top 5 or 6. In the league, we're doing ok, but we should be even better. Andre Gray's stats are actually not too bad, but then you have to back that up with what you see in a match. Given the chances he's had and missed this season, he should be top of the charts. At home we have now won 5 and lost 5. I'm not too worried about the defeats as 4 of those were against sides in the top 6. It's a shame we were not able to take more than just Spurs as a scalp, but there is quite a big divide when we play these teams. At home I expect Watford to win the vast majority of remaining matches. We have a very good run of home matches now. Away is always a lottery and in the second half of the season we are playing 5 of the top 6, so looking at the rest of the season, home form is going to be pivotal in deciding whether we finish in the top 7/8, mid-table or just above the drop zone.
I went home from the game last night pretty content. The only thing that really frustrated me is the game seemed set for us to throw the kitchen sink at them in the last 10 minutes and Chelsea completely took us to school in that period and starved us of the ball. Impressive from them given they were away, only leading by one and off the back of a defeat a few days previous. Other teams might have got nervous and retreated to the edge of their own box. We had a clear tactical plan last night to be compact, narrow, sacrifice territory and make Chelsea play through us. So the fact they made more passes or had more possession was obviously expected by Javi from the outset and so I don't see it as an automatic sign of being outplayed. It broadly worked and their best chances came from our mistakes or when we were attacking. The first half was really all about a succession of half chances for both sides until we gifted them their goal. Great character to get level before half time and then in the ascendancy after half time without quite manufacturing a clear sight of goal. I thought we were a bit disappointing after they took the lead. We were more attacking than in the first half, and less panicked in possession, but just too slow building attacks to really threaten Chelsea. Subs didn't add much either. Otherwise, I don't really understand the flak Foster's getting for their penalty. He stays on his line (or thereabouts) and Hazard scores. He comes out and Hazard wins a penalty or goes around him and scores. For a player of Hazard's class the biggest factor in whether he scores or not is him, not the keeper. The key was to concentrate enough to stop him getting through on goal in the first place. Still, we go again.
I agree. The penalty was a situation of Mariappa’s making. He gambled that Hazard would drop for a short pass and that creates the space for the midfielder to easily put Hazard in behind him. Foster had little choice then really. Hazard was a level above last night and was in the mood. I think most CB’s would have struggled against him last night but at times, Mariappa made it far easier for him than it should have been. Mariappa is extremely prone to these charges out of the backline to cut out the danger...if you do that, you have to be a big header of the ball (he’s not) or make sure you get something on it. Mariappa rarely does either and its too dangerous to allow him to keep making the same mistake.
It's funny how keepers always seem to create pandemonium when they go up for a corner or a free kick. I mean it's one unfamiliar player to defend against.. but should that spread fear in the defending team every time? Ive tried to analyse why this is and the best i can come up with is.. - It's one extra/unfamiliar player & the defence isnt sure how he should be marked - The psychological factor of the opposition "giving their all" in a last ditch attempt - Goalkeepers are more often than not large individuals who can throw themselves around a bit - A different coloured shirt confuses the opposition.. especially when it's a lairy goalkeepers top (ok i'm scraping the barrel here!) Anyway it's always exciting when it happens and lifts the crowd.. and maybe that's the final factor in why it spooks the defending side.
I do worry how reliant we are on the midfield to contribute. Take Peyrera and Deulofeu out of the squad and where do we finish?
I don't think that it was as clear cut as that. It seemed to me that Foster coming off his line distracted Hazard enough for him to lose control of the ball - I'd 'hazard' a guess that, had Foster not clattered into him, he would have lost the chase for the loose ball to Cathcart. I'm not trying to give Foster flak over this, just pointing out that his decision to knock Hazard over was as hard to understand as Atkinson's earlier decision that Luiz hadn't deliberately knocked Deulofeu over in the box at the other end.
Could it be that players are so coached these days that any unexpected/unpracticed event means they have to think spontaneously & hence panic? If only Ben's overhead kick had gone in.
Almost a decent pass - we had a couple of players in space close to the ball. Maybe offside though. Also thought Foster was hard done by to be booked...hardly a deliberate foul.
He ran round in front of the rookery before the match with a pink hoodie, obviously somethings not right!!!!!!!
Happened a couple of years ago in South Africa. Perhaps we could have recreated the goal celebration! Famously Peter Schmeichel also had an overhead kick goal disallowed.
Very unusual to see a player walk of the pitch only to them be stretchered off to hospital 25 minutes later, I cant remember seeing that before!
The foul Foster committed was 100% a penalty and I am sure that had the Chelsea GK fouled Duelofeu in the same way even we would have been awarded a penalty. Likewise I am 100% certain that had say Cathcart had fouled Hazard in the same way Luiz fouled Duelofeu, Chelsea would almost certainly have been awarded a penalty, unfortunately little old Watford were not
The thing with blaming Foster for taking Hazard out is it is easy to conveniently forget all the times he comes out and intercepts the ball to prevent a goal scoring chance. I’d rather a goalkeeper that occasionally got it wrong then 9ne who stayed on his line excessively.
Have you watched it back? Deulofeu clearly instigates locking arms with Luiz and pulls him down onto him. It’s clever (although cheating) if we get a penalty but it’s more a free-kick for Chelsea than it is a penalty to us.
Watching this incident live I thought it was a penalty, but having watched TV replays I now don’t. However, Luiz’s first movement was to put an arm across Deulofeu’s chest because he feared him bursting past and getting in a cross or shot. It seems to me this is a case of obstruction, punishable by an indirect free kick. Can anyone remember seeing one of these being awarded in any match in recent years? Is it a completely forgotten rule?
I think we would have had more of a claim with the penalty had Duelofeu not dived after beating Luiz.
The other curiosity yesterday was seeing a family of 4 on the Upper GT concourse pre-match resplendent in their Chelsea clobber. I think they all had shirts and scarves on and didn't look like they were off to any hospitality area. Saw a steward reluctantly saunter across and advise them to cover up their colours, much to their bemusement. Made me wonder how they ever got in or why they were allowed to stay - but then watched two stewards guarding a tiny puddle caused by a spilt pint on the Rookery concourse for over 10 minutes because no one could find a mop. Mystery solved.
I didn’t say he was contributing to goals did I? I’ll say again, word for word: ‘He’s been holding the ball up, occupying the centre halves and creating space for Pereyra and Deulofeu, who have been scoring the goals’.
Didn't think we played particularly badly but certainly didn't play well. Most notable for me is our ball retention is terrible at times, Hazards first goal you could see coming a mile off with how sloppy we had been in possession. Never the less: Foster- Believe this was his 100th Watford appearance? Said to the old man when I heard that over the tannoy that I always get worried when a player hits a landmark, performance seems to go one of two ways, either really good or really bad and that stood testament last night. I won't batter him to much as he has been brilliant almost every other game but his kicking was poor and I really don't think he needed to come charging out for the penalty. Femenia- Thought he had a good game, got forward when possible, played well in the tight spaces, and I don't recall to many occasions that he was skinned by any Chelsea player. Could maybe try to get the ball in quicker at times? Think he could be a real threat if he can pick up a good relationship with someone down that side (don't think Sema is the guy, but I'll get onto him) Cathcart- Was superb last night, the definition of solid. I thought he was excellent with the ball at his feet which isn't something we could always say. Mr Reliable as always, in desperate need of a partner for him, by far our best defender. Mariappa- Just want to start by saying hope Kabasele is alright, may well force the owners hand in January. As for Mapps, well, I love Mariappa, over the years he has been nothing short of brilliant but he is our 3rd choice center back, we're aiming for 7th...and we're calling upon 32 year old Mapps to slot in. Don't get me wrong, I think there is a place for him in this squad, a big personality, has leadership qualities but he cannot be the first we turn to when an injury happens. He charges around like a bull in a china shop. I can't figure out what he is doing for the penalty. His starting position is good, but charging forward makes the midfielders mind up to dink it over, very poor. Reinforcements needed in January. Holebas- How good as this guy been this season? 34 years old and his producing quality performances week in, week out. A real unsung hero this season. Solid defensively, good relationship with Pererya, dangerous when getting forward and the cross for our goal is an absolute beauty. Sema- Been given a run in the side of late but I'm just not sure he is good enough. He's physical and I appreciate the work he does defensively and he certainly showed glimpses in todays game where he is decent with the ball at his feet, however, I just don't think he is mentally quick enough for this league. Just doesn't seem to be on the same wavelength as the others when playing in the little triangles, may well come good. Decent squad player, but can't seem him keeping his place when everyone is fit. Doucoure- Bit of a hit and miss performance from him last night. Offensively could maybe of grabbed a goal, skied one, had one blocked, ball didn't quite fall for him which ultimately led to the corner that created our goal. Partly at fault for the 1st goal but just isn't keeping the ball well enough this season. Isn't maybe as integral as we all may of thought? Rumour of him heading off in January, maybe time to cash in? Capoue- Another decent performance, as much as Doucoure was at fault for the goal, the pass from Capoue was absolutely awful, he left Doucs with a lot to do. Probably keeps the ball better than anyone else in the team, sprays the ball around nicely. Made a great tackle in our box to stop the counter. Such a powerful runner with the ball but doesn't seem to use it often, love seeing him burst out with the ball from midfield, could be a real asset, would like to see more of that. Pererya- This guy could have goal of the season competition with himself. Another cracking goal, the technique is absolutely sensational. Other than the goal though a little quiet today? A couple good runs and I think linked up with Deeney fairly well tonight, needs to give more defensively I think but not a bad shift, just other than the goal thought the game passed him by. Looked knackered by the end, looked as if he was running through custard. Deulofeu- Thought he was really quiet tonight, messed up the back heel early on and that really set the tempo for him. Went down easily later in the first half which I don't think helped later on. Broke a couple times and even when he ins't on it, just with the ball at his feet, he does look bloody dangerous. The penalty shout. At the time in the stand (upper Graham Taylor) which I had a really good view, I thought it was a stonewall penalty. Looked to me that Luiz had grabbed his and then bundle into the back of him but after watching it on TV I'm not so sure. Geri hooks his arm on Luiz and is he fouled after that? It is hard to see if Luiz bundles into him or if Deulofeu pulls him towards him forcing Luiz to bundle him over. What I do know though, if it was the other way round, you can guarantee it would have been given in Chelseas favour. Deeney- Thought he played well tonight, was physical and led the team through the game. Won a good few flicks in by no one ran onto the end of them, bullied Rudiger and kept the ball fairly well. Was denied by a good Luiz block, think the ball was played just slightly to in front of him. In the ground thought he should of scored when he poked it over the bar in the second half, but after watching it on TV, a much harder chance than I first thought. Room for him in the squad 100% but in desperate need of a goalscorer. Quina- I like the lad, has great ability and good potential but didn't think he was good when he came on. Didn't keep the ball well enough and one cross field ball was atrocious but I'm not going to knock a kid coming on when losing to Chelsea and not lighting the world up. More Premier League minutes under his belt and hopefully continues learning. A bright prospect. Success- Wasn't on for to long and in the later stages of the game Chelsea kept the ball so well he didn't have time to show much. Overall- Like I said at the beginning, not bad but not good. Need to work on keeping the ball better, two silly mistakes cost us goals today. Was only impressed with Hazard and Kante for Chelsea, if Hazard leaves they are in trouble. Onto Newcastle, we owe them one so hopefully a good performance and I'm confident of a good result.
