Watford FC 0- AFC Bournemouth - 06/10/2018

Agreed that the Muff strikers were fantastic. Excellent movement & played as a pair which Deeney & Gray seldom do.

Muff clearly targeted Femenia. He is not a natural defender, having limited awareness of what is happening around him & especially behind him. The pace & precision of their counter attacks in the first half was exemplary.

Because of their set piece duties, Holebas & Deeney are frequently out of position. When Holebas takes a right side corner, it is impossible for him to get back into his defensive position if there is a quick break. On one occasion, he was stuck as right back for at least 2 minutes. This confuses the defence. The first 3 goals all stemmed from gaps on the left side of defence.

Deeney has an important role at defensive set pieces but it prevents him from easily linking with Gray on counter attacks.

 

Looks like we’ve just scraped through on aggregate.

 

kV, any update you wish to share?

 

Don’t want to be too critical tonight, we are still doing far better than I thought we would be. The last international break couldn’t have come at a worse time as we were flying and had huge confidence in our play that meant we felt we could take on anyone. Subsequently, whilst performances were still high afterwards, results were not and culminated in today and the feeling that this international break is coming at the perfect time. Give them a few days break, let Troy divulge, deal, and move past the fact he has been front page news. Let Chalobah and Kabasele go and mix with World Cup semi-finalists. And wipe the slate clean for the next game - it’s winable and we (should!) have a fully fit squad. Chalobah and Deulofeu perhaps to start. Reset the defence, get rid of the slight insecurities that have set in. We all know we could have done with a top drawer CB but we didn’t get him. Let’s not dwell on it. We can do that in January and the summer.

I’m still positive. Performances before today have been good, it’s just results that have been disappointing. We are still set well in the table with favourable fixtures to come!

 

Didn’t watch, as over in Belfast for a wedding, however I have read a few bits and had a couple of texts saying the defence was an absolute shambles. Cathcart mentioned specifically as being awful today.

Gracia’s game management has always been a concern for me. He seems to like his ‘set menu’ subs that he can do time and time again, and I’m sorry, but shifting Capoue who has probably been one of our most effective players this year into CB and leaving Mariappa on the bench until 0-4 is shocking management - even if Mariappa is somewhat limited at this level.

All teams have off days. That’s widely agreed and accepted. However, I’m beginning to think that we’ve been found out and I’m interested to see what the plan B is now. Since the Spurs game, teams seem to largely have our number.

Big improvement needed at Wolves, who are a very handy and capable team and one that could easily cause damage.

 

At lot was made of our first few victories of the season with the goals coming in the second half after a subdued performance in the first.

We went completely gung-ho at the start which was completely naive and inexcusable against a team known for their pace on the counter attack.

The way we got caught out so early on in the game was quite frankly ridiculous and unnecessary.

I said it earlier on in the thread, but I believe it’s born out of frustration from the last two games when we’ve played well but ultimately missed chances and not got the desired result.

We looked like we were trying to just force the ball in the goal at all costs from minute one but without ever looking like we would. I think we are a half decent team, but we are no way near good enough to be able to start a game like that and get away with it against anybody other than maybe the bottom few clubs in the league.

Javi has done brilliantly, but that comes down to him to set the tone and tempo for the game. Starting a bit slowly worked perfectly earlier on in the season, and let’s face it starting like we did yesterday hasn’t worked in the slightest.

We just need to slow it down about and keep our composure, we don’t need to worry about scoring straight away, if it happens great but we have 90 minutes.

 

I am too shocked to comment after such a poor performance yesterday.

Yesterday did remind me that Bournemouth fans are trying to force some sort of rivalry though.

 

I think yesterday was just one of those days where absolutely everything possible was going to go against us. Until the penalty incident I thought the game was relatively even. We had played well causing the Bournemouth defence quite a few problems, and Deeney was winning his fair share in the air and linking play well. Hughes and Kiko looked decent going forwards on the right, and Cathcart really should have scored his header when it was easier to score than miss. Bournemouth looked ok, and their breakaway goal was brilliantly executed. On first viewing at the game there didn't seem to much wrong with the Kabasele challenge on Begovitch, mistimed at worst, certainly nothing malicious, and certainly not worth the theatrics Begovitch applied to it. He basically got Kabasele booked, and the Bournemouth team were at it all game. Niggly fouls galore constant shirt tugging, all over Deeney every time he went to win a ball in the air. Quite how they got away with no bookings is an amazement to me. To be fair the penalty although looking soft probably was the right call. I just hoped for a moment that Jon Moss was going to use a bit of common sense, think about his earlier decision, and maybe not book Kabasele again. Had he not I think we could quite possibly have still got something from the game even at two nill down. No way are we as good as we have been hyped up to be, but likewise we are no way near as bad as that 4-0 scoreline would suggest to the wider footballing world. Oh and Eddie Howe masterclass. My big fat behind to that idea. Theres a way to win and a way to lose and I dont think either team covered themselves in glory yesterday.

 

Which will please a lot of Watford fans who have been doing the same thing since 2015.. no longer actually.

 

"Because of their set piece duties, Holebas & Deeney are frequently out of position. When Holebas takes a right side corner, it is impossible for him to get back into his defensive position if there is a quick break. On one occasion, he was stuck as right back for at least 2 minutes. This confuses the defence. The first 3 goals all stemmed from gaps on the left side of defence.

Deeney has an important role at defensive set pieces but it prevents him from easily linking with Gray on counter attacks."


Spot on. Kabasele has to cover for Holebas being away on set-piece duty; most of the time he does that well, but against real pace he can get the wrong side or against two or three breaking leaves a hole in the centre. I can understand having a central midfielder taking all the free kicks, but a wing-back? Surely we can find one other player who can strike a dead ball reasonably proficiently? Similarly, one of the less-defensive midfielders must cover Deeney's attack support role after opposition corners. Peyreyra or Deulofeu? Without a rethink, Bournemouth have provided a blueprint to help everyone else to beat us.

 

Sorry, but Moss was absolutely right to book Kabasele for the stupid challenge on Begovic. He jumped into the goalie with his right arm across his face. However the second one was disappointing because it was a genuine attempt to play the ball, which he very nearly did, and the penalty should have been sufficient punishment.

Having said that, Gracia is absolutely right when he says that if you lose 4-0 at home you need to look elsewhere than the decisions of the referee for the reasons.

 

I agree with much of what you say, but I thought the one think we, and Gracia, had learnt from last season is that we don’t have a striker to play a formation with just one up top. However I do think Success is pushing for a start now and should be considered in a two.

 

Enforced changes for Wolves, but just as important is Gracias game plan.
He baffles us fans with his inability to bring on players early enough or at the right time and seems set on 4-4-2.

 

Having seen the penalty incident again several times on MOTD, I still maintain that Kabesele got the ball - probably at the same time as their player. Is that a pen? I don't think so.

He didn't go through their player he came in from the side.

I havn't got the ability to put a slo mo vid on here, but I am sure it would show me to be correct.

 

Very disappointing. I found out the score at half time from someone with a phone and it quite took the spice out of my cumbia and merengue for the remainder of the fiesta.

I saw the highlights and, what a shock, yet another penalty for Bournemouth. That's SIX penalties to them in only eight Premiership games this season. That's way, way beyond coincidence and 'luck' isn't it? That's beyond belief for even the most credible of innocents. There's quite patently something going on when statistics are so obviously warped like that.

On MOTD the commentator brought this up and said "that says to me Bournemouth are playing a lot of football in the opposition penalty area". What it says to, no what it SCREAMS to me is diving, simulation, play acting, actively playing for and seeking penalties as a deliberate strategy or other forms of gamesmanship. Bournemouth are perverting the game of football. Plain and simple.

There needs to be some sort of investigation about bringing the game into disrepute. For me, a subsequent heavy points deduction needs to be imposed to dissuade other teams from following this despicable ruining of the game.

How galling to lose to them when we were so clearly the better team by far. And especially by such a scoreline! What a horrible excuse for a ref. This owner of theirs is a Russkie, isn't he? Victorovich or something. A "secretive" Russian "businessman".

We all know how our country has been attacked in recent times by the Russians. We all know what "secretive Russian businessman" means. An outrage. Trying to twist and pervert our democratic processes. Poisoning and hacking and paying people off. The enquiry I mentioned above should also examine the bank accounts of the referees involved to see if there have been any recent substantial transfers of Roubles.

The first goal was a prime example. Our boys pouring forward had them on the rack. Playing beautiful football. Tearing them to shreds. Shot after shot after shot hammering in as their lumbering desperadoes frantically threw any body part in the way to try to protect their goal.

The ball falls to Will Hughes who looses a glorious shot which was a goal every inch of the way, until two of the hulking Muffer defenders jump together, both arms raised like a pair of basketball guards and manage to punch the ball away far away down field. Although this would have been called a straightforward penalty in any game in the world, the ref pretends not to notice and sprints off downfield thinking of the retirement holiday dacha on the Black Sea he's been promised by fat Colonel Victorivich.

Astounded and stunned to momentary shocked immobility at the lack of a whistle, the Muff are able to break away into our half and get an unopposed cross in. Ben Foster makes a brilliant save, but unfortunately the unlucky bounce of the ball takes it to some horrible little blond haired kid who's standing around in the penalty area and, with our valiant and honest players grounded and unable to prevent it, he's able to slyly and sneekily tap it completely unopposed into the empty net. One of the most disgusting 'goals' I've ever witnessed.

And they even had the brass neck to celebrate afterwards. The beaming ref only just about remembering that he shouldn't leap in and join the celebrations and contenting himself with a simple shout of "Da! Da!" and a thumbs up to a group of unsmiling men in identical black suits and sunglasses who were sitting in the first rows of the stand behind the Bournemouth dugout.

Obviously even that outrage didn't satisfy them and they must have seen how much we were still all over them and outplaying them, because just a few moments later the message must have come through from Moscow and one of the sunglasses men whispered into his lapel the old familiar cry of "Пеиalty!" and the rest we know.

Shameful.

 

Spot on. The 'foul' in the box isn't a yellow in the middle of the pitch so why does it have to be in the box?

The Bournemouth players asking Moss if he's going to book Kabasele didn't help though

 

Success played 1 up front at TottyDons and did a good job at it

He has everything to be a lone striker: big, strong, good in the air, good with his feet, plenty of pace, can go in behind, can finish, just missing experience and he won't get it sitting on the bench

If it were me I'd be thinking about maybe 3421 or 4321 as the way forward, with Success up top, a combination of Delafoo / Hughes / Pereyra behind, and Chalobah, Capoue and Dooks as a very powerful capable midfield 3

 

Having watched MOTD I think both booking for Kabasele were right. The first was just a stupid one a rush of blood to the head. But being on a yellow you have to be more astute than that. Could the referee have given him the benefit of the doubt? Yes he could, but why should he after the shirt pull and the earlier booking? So it's the classic if it's against you the referee should just give the pen. If it's for you you want the other sides CB to get the second yellow. There was not a lot of complaints by the Watford players at the time. So I think the ref got it right. Newcastle not getting a penalty for the Ashley Young handball probably was the worst decision by an official on MOTD this weekend, and the one that probably had more impact on the result of any game.

 

Tactically it was a very interesting though painful game to watch. Bournemouth were both ruthless and incisive. Howe was right when he said they have played better. Early on they hit several balls out of touch. But they stuck to bypassing our midfield and going down the flanks. With Femenia and Holly upfield it became easy. Garcia will have to change formation and personnel for Wolves. As soon as the first goal went in we stopped pressing from the front. That made us more vulnerable. We need to defend the width of the pitch. As we won't probably be playing a back three surely we need Chalobah back to screen the centre backs. We can also move the ball out on the transition much quicker. As we lack pace compared to teams like the muffins this is essential. We had plenty of possession yesterday despite being down to 10 men. However our build ups and final third passing is too slow. It was easy to block our shots even early on. It all needs freshening up but we need to have a solid core. Success also deserves further pitch time, but please Javi bring these subs on sooner! Mourinho was actually quite bold in that respect yesterday something that could have saved his job. Halftime should have resulted in change(s) no doubt if only to limit the damage, not wait until forced by tiredness.

 

That was my clear impression at the time but foolhardy to give Muff the opportunity to dive.

They were simulating at 4-0 up in their own half.

 

A lot of negative feelings about the game yesterday. Which is understandable. But I want to take the opportunity to make a list of all the positives we saw, things to build on. It's not all doom and gloom. So the list is:

-Foster's initial save for the first goal was top notch, great reactions

Ok that's it folks, see you for Wolves in two weeks

 

Agreed. His shirt was also tugged on the turn leading up to the penalty, but then he blatantly tugged the other guy's outside the area. But I don't think it was a penalty, he got the ball. A fairer decision would been a free kick (and second booking) outside the area, in my opinion.

Not that it matters much now, though. I just don't like this "clear penalty" interpretation on here, but particularly on MOTD - and their general lovefest for Muff, who cheated throughout and got away with it.

 

I was there to the end, not yet quite worked out what category of simpleton I fall into though.

 

Yesterday was just so bizarre. When we played Manchester United and went 2-0 down, we still looked like we had fight in us. When it was still 0-0, we had so many chances, shots, corners, and one occasion where the ball was bobbling around the box for at least four of our players to have a go. Even when we’ve lost, we’ve played well, so I have no idea what led us to collapse in the way we did yesterday. Maybe Gracia’s Determination to maintain the same XI as much as possible is having an impact. Consistency is key, but perhaps fatigue is setting in. Now that we’ve got Chalobah and Deulofeu back (with Cleverley still to come), we can see how we can deploy the best players available.

 

Its what makes muff such an odious scummy little team. The harassing officials, diving, rolling around faking injury, time wasting ect - all teams do it to some extent but they take it too a whole new level and did it in abundance yesterday. It all stems from that smug face git they have as manager.

They were notorious for it in the championship.

 

That's what it looked like even at the other end of the pitch. But even though it is hard to argue against a pen a yellow card was harsh. Moss is a terrible referee. We had an early free kick on their right and he gave it straight away. However he then got us to take it at least at least 15 yards more centrally - totally baffling. He had early on decided he was going to penalise us and give the muffins an easy time. Deeney constantly in his ear did not help. None of this excuses our awful defending but this guy needs to be retired from the list.

 

Clive, I can corroborate this.

Two men in identical black apparel were stalking up & down the touch lines all afternoon wearing some form of headset.

Although armed with small banners, oddly neither chose to alert Tovareechny Moss to the antics of the rampaging Bournemouth stooges.

 

Our CBs get repeatedly done for pace, so how about bringing back the slowest player in the squad? Nice one.

 

The classic Bournemouth falling around and feigning injury WAS a bit baffling when they were 4-0 up. What's the point? It's not like there was any danger of us getting back into it

 

Everything I hated about Bournemouth, well, I still do. Diving, time wasting, cheating.... but also had a superb game plan. They targeted our right side and it worked fantastically. Ferminia looked poor, with no help from Hughes. I think today is the first time Javi will have seen that Hughes is not a winger.

Kabasele is proving to me as each game goes by that he is a liability. Forget the penalty incident (which I thought he won the ball but he would’ve still been sent off for the tug of the shirt outside the box had the ref brought it back for a free kick), his passing has been poor, often putting players under unnecessary pressure and needlessly giving the ball away. I do not dispute his ability to throw his body at the ball, but this is the premier league, we need more than just that.

My biggest gripe is the constant long ball from Foster. I can’t recall Deeney winning many headers lately and those he did win didn’t come to anything. Surely this isn’t our game plan. We have two very good central midfielders plus Pereya, and our game plan is to bypass them all? Foster’s kicking is class by the way but let’s not turn into West Brom. We are better than that. Aren’t we?!

 

One of the most over rated players since I've supported Watford. I think he gets away with his mistakes because he's well liked cause he's funny on twitter.

He's too weak needs to get on the weights. We need a strong and commanding centre back in asap - someone who loves to defend! I've always questioned Kaba since he went down in that away games against Bournemouth.

His main assest his pace he relies on this too much - it's not a sign of a good defender having to rely on this because yesterday for the penalty it doesn't always help.

 

That would be an aching simpleton.

 

We were up against a pretty poor static defence yesterday and the key was to use the wings and play on the ground. What do we do? Get Foster to lob it up to deeney and on the few occasions he wins it, Gray is nowhere near him. It was too easy. This game was crying out for Isaac to start and cause havoc.

We have got to find another corner taker. Normally they end up in nothing and then Holesbas is completely out of position and sometimes on the complete opposite of the place he’s supposed to be. It’s even worse when Jose and Roberto P decide to do their short corners and then they both find themselves woefully out of position when the opposition win the ball and counter attack. It’s too predictable and dangerous.

 

You can hardly blame their fans for being ****-a-hoop yesterday. I would have been if I had been in their shoes.