The Red Lion Public House - News

Only for a fixed period of two years. No one is going to buy a two year lease to convert a pub into a shop. Plus the pub is part of The Square conservation area, and that impacts change of use

 

Shame the club don't want it now we have the money but I suppose they can't now they have sub contracted the catering.

 

I finished my property law exams only a couple of weeks ago. Why am I being reminded of that hell on a Watford forum?

 

Because you can't buy a pint in the Vicarage Road Red Lion

 

The Red Lion, Vicarage Road

Apparently the pub is in the process of being sold to a developer who wants to convert the site into flats. A local brewery are keen to purchase the pub and CAMRA have become involved - to get an Asset of Community Value (ACV) lodged, which would require the pub to be available for purchase from the local community, requires 21 signatories from different postal addresses of people who are on the local electoral roll. The form is in Reasons Coffee Shop, which is on the Parade in the High Street, if anyone on here lives in the locality is keen to see the pub remain, please pop in ASAP and sign the form.

The local brewery Pope's Yard are a Watford company starting out in the world, would be a great fit for Watford.

Do your best. Thanks

 

I'll do my utmost to pop in Saturday and sign. Thanks for raising it Jelboy.

http://www.opening-hours-uk.co.uk/opening-hours/reason-coffee-shop-bookstore-watford

 

Presume it must be electoral role for Watford?

 

Only in favour if they get it back to how they used to be. Crap laminate flooring and Suggs being blasted out at an unreasonable volume were reason enough for it to be bulldozed the last time the doors were open.

 

Yes mate.

 

This is just to prevent it being converted into flats. An ACV gives the local community a period of time to submit a counter-bid, at the going rate for a like for like building (i.e. Pub), the seller is not obliged to accept the offer but has to consider it. The issue is if sold for development, it can make probably double what they would get if sold as a pub. The planners are under new legislation though that gives pubs extra help as they are under pressure to save pubs especially community ones.

If the bid is successful, the community then needs to get a committee together and create a business plan - so the likelihood of it returning to the state it was before it shut is, I would suggest, very unlikely.

 

Good news. I'm in. We certainly don't need bloody flats opposite the Mecca.

 

Wish I could sign this but I live in London. I hate seeing pubs turned into flats its happening everywhere. I hope this local brewery can save the Red Lion it is actually a decent property just needs the right management with a bit of imagination. God bless the Pope's Yard.

 

Live nowhere near otherwise I would. When is it too late?

 

Hard to tell, next week, the week after? The problem is I don't know how far down the road negotiations are, but I know the local CAMRA group are pushing this heavily - hopefully we'll be in time....

 

I sent email to a west Watford Cllr and he said he would sign

 

People priced out of living in the town where they grew up might disagree.

 

I'm all for keeping it as a pub, but the problem with the Red Lion was that it was only ever a Watford matchday pub. The actual West Watford and surrounding area community never used it for a regular drinking hole - I've been in there on non-matchdays (cannot remember why) and it was practically empty if not actually empty apart from my lot.

So is 1 day of great trade a fortnight going to keep it going through 13 days of non match days and 3 months or so of zero weekly trade?

I imagine that's possibly why the previous owners struggled and why, unless they do something drastically different or are subsidised, any future owners will.

 

I have been advised that enough signatures have been obtained to slow the sale process down and an application for ACV can now be made.

This is just the start. If the local brewery (Pipes Yard) are genuinely keen on finding an outlet, this could transform the pub as it would be something completely different to what it was in the past. I do appreciate that some people are anti it being run as it was previously, but if the community are involved in the buyout they are much more likely to use it, one would hope.

I'll keep putting updates on here, if that's ok admins?

 

In my view its very much worth saving. I would suggest the Red Lion is of historical significance to a town which grew up around the Brewing industry, and has very few reminders of this left. Not only is the Red Lion one of the oldest remaining pubs left in Watford, it was originally owned by Dyson family who's brewery ultimately became Benskin's, without whom we wouldn't have the 'Vic.

Pope's Yard are a great little local micro brewery who are trying to continue the fine tradition of brewing in Watford, and I believe they have an interest in turning the Red Lion into a brew pub, which would be an excellent use of the building. I have no doubt they could make it work.

If you get the opportunity, the beer shop in St Albans normally keeps a good selection of their beers. Definitely worth a try!

 

Owners quoting £40,000 per annum rent for a new lease.

 

Not actually true of the 70's & early 80's when it was quite lively all week..a lot of the residents from the streets behind the pub used to go in regularly, we had a good darts team who were in there most evenings & the added bonus of regular attendance by the inhabitants of the nurses' accommodation from the hospital...it seemed to go downhill from the mid-80's on, I think.

 

It's never seemed to be a commercial success from football trade so why will it in the future? There are even fewer premier league games.

Change the class of use and save the building

 

I think the demographic makeup of the local community has changed somewhat over the intervening years. There is a far higher percentage of Asian residents who are culturally less likely to visit a pub (stated as a fact and not intended as any form of racist judgement) and the increased focus on anti drink driving puts people off traveling any great distance to visit a pub - this is also affecting country pubs.

 

Turn into a new club shop that looks like a pub.

 

Ideal location for a half and half scarf factory

 

Actually, for the club to have decided to use it for some form of club shop/restaurant combo would have been a good idea.

 

Update

13 Aug 2015 — We have heard from the owner and he is asking £1.1 million for the pub, flats and the shed. This price does not include the land at the back.
We currently do not know what the owner paid for the property and this is too much for Popes Yard Brewery to afford on their own.
It now become even more vital that the council accept the Asset of Community Value application to give us time to move forward.

 

He's a greedy chap. Its only worth anywhere near that much if he can get planning permission to redevelop it for a whole bunch of housing. Fingers crossed the ACV gets some traction.

 

Open proposal for the club if they are minded - negotiate to acquire freehold, design and develop scheme for brewery to occupy (Watford fc original nickname - the brewers). Brewery to produce official Watford fc beer sold on site and in stadium, and other lines also available in situ and on line for delivery. Small scale brewery tours, other memorabilia and Watford fc museum - becomes small scale destination open beyond match days etc.

 

If the Popes Yard brewery want to buy a pub - that's the sort of freehold money they will need to get one.

It is not an outrageous amount for the land - remember it already has planning permission for flats as part of the clubs original plans to put offices on the old stable block/open land to the side and flats in the pub - so they will definitely get permission to convert the buildings to residential. £1 million is about the going rate for the freehold of a back street pub. if a 3 bed terrace is about £340,000 -you can see why he wants that sort of money for a buildings and land he could 4/5 flats on. Suggestion - put a pub in the old stable - convert the old pub into 3 flats to fund the micro brewery business.

 

Who are 'the owners' if it isn't Bas or the club?

£1.1 million is a heck of an investment for that operation. That said, over 30 years would be about what you are saying the current owners want per annum (40k). The rent (or mortgage) therefore would be what £3300 a month? It seems a bargain actually.

 

As much as I'd love the club to help, they've had the opportunity to do something about the situation on a number of occasions and chose not to. I suspect privately they'd rather it ended up as flats so it doesn't compete with them for matchday revenue sadly.

 

For the club I think it is a question of focus. WFC is in the football business and probably would not want the distraction.

 

Honestly don't know who the new owners are but identity info should be available on line, with price paid, on Land Registry web site for the download sum of £6 I think to include a copy of he title plan. Be interesting to see how much of a "turn" the owner(s) are looking for in what would be a short period of ownership.

 

Pozzos just not committed to Wfc or they would buy it. Think they are here for the short haul and a sign of commitment would be nice