The FA 'shaking up' football again

I'm not enthralled at the proposed details but in principle I am fully behind it. You have to start somewhere and at least it will put an end to their ridiculous EPPP.

Though once we're promoted[sic] it may affect us more than most. However the optimist in me say's the Pozzo model will flourish, we may have to grab them younger to qualify for home grown but accordingly WFC might then be the only viable route for non EU youngsters to play here.

 

Well the veil isn't thin enough for me to see through.

Whose self interest and please explain your very strong comment about this being the worst idea in history.

Cos, I am not particularly enthusiastic about the plan, but after interviews and contributions from 600 football people, I thought that they may have come up with an idea worth discussing, rather than such a dismissal.

 

I would much rather international football folded altogether than the FA killing off small clubs in a futile attempt to get naturally-**** English players out of the group stage.

 

Anybody who says Sky doesn't influence the FA with $$$ is living in a bubble. The sooner there is only 10 PL clubs the better as far as Sky is concerned.

 

They didn't bother talking to the Conference though, one of the leagues that will be massively affected by these plans. I can only guess these 'football' people don't have lower leagues and the pyramid on their radar. They're only interested in the very top.

http://www.footballconference.co.uk/news/details.php?news_id=12411

 

Which is ironic, considering that, in the report, the FA recognised that grassroots facilities were inadequate. But why improve those when you can give £60m parachute payments to relegated Premier League clubs?

 

Don't disagree with this at all. I stopped watching England friendlies quite a while ago and I'm really not bothered how the team does over the summer. These plans are just awful. The FA clearly only care about the Premier League and the national side.

 

I assume the 2nd placed team and third placed team would go up automatically, then play-offs would be between 4th and 7th. Which means, if all 10 B teams finish in the top 10, 11th and 12th place would get promoted.

 

We made the play-offs! Excellent news.

 

To be fair, Real Madrid B produced fine talents such as Javier Acuna....

Dreadful miserable idea. Imagine having to celebrate promotion from league 1 as a result of finishing 4th or 5th? Open top bus parade for that. I couldn't give a ******* about the England team, and don't see what problem they are fixing. If you're good enough (Barkley, Stirling, Shaw, Oxlade-Chamberlain etc) you'll play.

 

This is the problem that I envisaged!

As I understand it none of these "B" Teams can be promoted above League One level; so after a few seasons I can imagine that league one will be made up almost exclusively of these "B" teams. Therefore how will promotion from League Two and relegation from The Championship work?

We could easily have a scenario that the teams relegated from The Championship to league One would be replaced by the teams promoted from League Two; as all the teams finishing 1st to 21st in League One could very likely be made up by these "B" Teams?

In fact the situation could become even more ridiculous, should say the 1st ten teams in Division Two also be made up of "B" teams, the teams finishing 11th, 12th & 13th could be promoted straight into The Championship; and so on depending on how many of these "B" teams are created?

Has this scenario been taken into account in the plan, if so can someone explain what the actual proposal is?

 

Can someone send this post to Greg ****, double quick?

 

There is only one group of teams this would benefit, the 'big six'. For them it's a business problem. Big business has to seek out new markets and new franchises. Only being able to field 11 starting players once a week for maybe 9 months is restrictive to them.

But that's their problem not ours. No one voted for them to become multiple £100m companies. They have to deal with their problems like we do with ours, not change the playing field.

 

I feel the day is coming where they destroy the "brand" as they begin to alienate a majority of the population from the sport, in an attempt to heighten the large clubs dominance.

 

It will work ... and personally I can't see what all the fretting is about. Yes I know people don't like change but let's face it, something drastic needs to be done because since the PL split from the league the English game has been dying on it's feet. Now is the time to address that and quite frankly this is about as close as we'll get to a re-amalgamation. For it to work the FA or PL clubs will have to compensate for lost gate receipts at away games but I'm sure they can afford it.
If this is done properly we will see lower league clubs benefit both financially and in levels of quality as the superior football technique rubs off. Furthermore I can't really see more than half the PL clubs being interested and of those most won't even be close to the top of league 2 yet alone league 1 (we are talking about mostly inexperienced youth players here).

 

*******s is it as close to reamalgamation. You're limiting what the Football League can do in the hope that they can produce the numbers that PL want when they need to hit their target. England players generally play for Premier League clubs, many of them have already come from PL academies already. Why should it been down to the Football League to nuture this talent? The Premier league is turning the Football League into a feeder program.

 

It's about improving the quality of the National team and until then the PL and PL clubs don't really benefit from it whatsoever, left to their own devices I'm sure they'd all be more than happy to let things continue as they are.

 

It's not competitive football if the club you're playing for doesn't give a ****.

You're more likely to perform at your best at Wolves on loan with Jackett screaming in your face to get stuck in so they can get promoted, than to play with your fellow incompetents against teams which are competing for promotion, for a side which can't be promoted and the club has no interest in getting promoted.

 

It takes a gullible person to think this is for the purposes of "improving the national team". The PL was for "improving the national team". Why would anybody want their club to be destroyed in order to "improve the national team" when they see the "national team" on television perhaps 4 times a year, whilst they see their local club a minimum of 20 times a year.

If the culture of the England national team and the FA is to kill off the small in order to benefit itself, then that institution needs to be shut down completely.

 

A couple of seasons? To replace 22 odd teams?

 

I have no clue what you are saying but I agree with your every word.

 

PL clubs don't compete for promotion they compete for the title and it'll be no different for their B teams.

 

No the English game has improved because now we get to see the best players in the world every week instead of players like Stuart Pearce and Owen Hargreaves.

What you mean to say is "I hate watching people with different passports to what I have on TV, and I want my country to beat their dirty third world countries so I can rub it in their smug foreign faces - that's what football is about! England.".

 

Pop Quiz - Why don't European teams have a problem of too many English players in their top leagues?

A) They're hoarding the space for their own kind in order to benefit their national teams.
B) Our players are so poor in quality from an early age that they would laugh at the prospect of putting players such as Welbeck in even the Castilla U15s, not that he would have made it into their youth system to begin with.
C) They're doing it to take rightful British jobs and the EU is infringing on our freedoms.
D) Because the PL is the best league in the world and if our players can't play there they may as well opt to play for Scarborough or reserve teams at a similar level rather than play in the tinpot Spanish and German leagues.

 

Why could they not compete for the esteemed title of the English 5th tier at Tamworth? What is so special about these magical "B" teams which will instantly make the individual English youth players into a regeneration of the galacticos? They're just playing at a poor level of football wearing a famous teams kit.

 

Pray sir where did I say it would take a couple of seasons

 

I have diligently read this thread with an open mind, seen the posts on both sides of the argument but still cant see the reasons why the B team idea is so wrong. I'm obviously one of the "gullible" people that Carlos refers to as I struggle to believe that Greg **** actually really wants to help the elite clubs and Sky, when he has been Labour candidate, and actively and vocally hates Sky TV and Murdoch - and has been on Brentfords Board for years. Has he been lying all his life, or is he lying now?

I dont know enough about the situation, but it seems to me that the more English youngsters on show, the more their price will come down, more will get snapped up by lower level teams (if not Prem quality), whilst the better layers will still have the opportunity to be loaned to Championship and lesser Prem clubs.

If I was, say a Hartlepool fan, I would be more inclined to watch a game versus a Man City B team than, say, Cheltenham, as there would be a good chance that I will be watching a future star. One of the most enjoyable aspects of watching youth football from the top clubs is trying to make a judgement on which lads will actually make it big. I would think this would bring extra paying public to games and generally benefit those lower clubs. And, of course, the clubs would be able to try and take on likely players they see playing at their own levels rather than "guessing" about a players ability through the loan system now.

If I was one of these youngsters playing in the B teams, then I am sure I would rather play in that kind of game against experienced mature players, rather than some made up youth competition that they will always be expected to win.

I don't actually think the B Teams would dominate the lower leagues as much as people think. Youth and innexperinece would be too big a factor, IMO.

Lastlly, promotion may not be a possibility for a B team in Division 1, but those players are still playing for their dream future contract, and I think that will guarantee competitiveness.

 

Imagine the intense atmosphere between the 10 Arsenal B fans and Tranmere. I could only dream of such a game.

People would only attend "B team" games in the hope that their own players kick the corporate clubs youth off the pitch; they infiltrated their division with a meaningless franchise when there were other more mutually beneficial alternatives already in existence. The most cheering would occur when "Big Dan" and "the Nos" clatter into Jenkinson with studs up challenges and give him a taste of the "big time". Unless the objective is to toughen them up, they'll gain nothing from playing.

Who on earth can suggest it would bring lower leagues quality up? Did Zola playing sexy football last year influence Barnsley and make them decide to play a high tempo passing game, with small agile players?

 

Problem: "Our kids come out of school innumerate, so we cannot get enough engineers".
Solution: "I know, lets make more non-mathematical engineering jobs in the hope one day they will be able to do highly mathematical engineering jobs".

 

I see Richard Scudamore has rejected the B team idea on behalf of the Premier League by saying it should be a last resort and all other options should be looked at first. The Conference have heavily criticised it and the Football League have called it unacceptable. It's deader than a dodo.

What I find is a shame is it's being reported that there are a number of really basic and solid ideas in this report which have been totally overlooked by the headline grabbing B team idea they slapped on the top. I'm sure Greg Dike knew exactly what the response would be so went for 'no news is bad news' rather than risk it being widely ignored.

 

What a ridiculous idea. Mixing the "elite" reserve sides with first team football. The problem is the national side, so why does it suddenly become a lower league problem?

The only people voting for this are managers of Premier League sides, because they see the benefit to themselves.

Ok, under this proposal none of these sides could be promoted beyond League One, but if Watford were in League One, I would hate watching us play a team like Everton B in a league match. It's just crazy and ill thought out.

It's just a case of Premier League sides getting their way yet again and farming off their problem lower down the league. Will these B teams be exclusively English, or just their young players from all nationalities?

Look at players like Rooney and Barkley. If you are good enough, you break through into the first team. I see no evidence to suggest young talent would benefit from playing Conference football.

The FA like to throw out stats like when the Premiership formed the percentage of English players in it was around 70%, now it's something like 23%. Well.....England didn't even qualify for the World Cup in 1994, so clearly quantity does not mean quality.

It's the responsibility of the Premier League to get the U21 Premier League in order and leave the grass roots alone. If they want to help grass roots football, then pump some of that massive wealth into school sports or public playing fields, spend money on top quality coaching for kids and create academies for all, not just professionals.

To improve at the top, you have to get it right at the bottom. It may take 20 years to get right, but this is what you have to do. There is no quick fix.

 

This is just another way the big clubs can fill their first teams with the worlds best foreign players while hording the best of the English talent without having to send them out on loan. How can playing against Braintree, Nuneaton etc every week set up a player to become a future international? The PL runs football in this country :dismay: