Stadium Expansion

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by CarlosKickaballs, Jun 4, 2015.

?

Which type of person are you?

  1. A dullard

    31 vote(s)
    35.6%
  2. Stars are like fireworks (the best type of firework, let me tell you) that dont move

    18 vote(s)
    20.7%
  3. Turtles mistaking nightclubs for the moonlight on the sea, concerns me greatly

    38 vote(s)
    43.7%
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  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    It's also already seen considerable expansion and I'm not sure there's much capacity for more.
     
  2. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    SEJ stand is designed to be extended easily. Maybe another 3-4000 seats to the rear.
     
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    You can easily hire another crane and take the screens off again if you want to expand those stands, but you probably mean in the near future?

    SD has only ever mentioned filling in the corners and looking at expanding the SEJ and SGT stands to get the capacity up to 30,000.

    Clearly there is plenty of scope to increase the size of the SEJ stand with ease. Probably over double the capacity of that stand. With the corners being filled in, we should get to at least 25-26,000. Further increases will probably involved some major work doing on the SGT stand, although I suspect that would be a few years down the line.

    While we are owned by the Pozzo's, I'd say there is zero chance of moving to a new stadium.
     
    Muggins_77 likes this.
  4. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    I meant the development of houses behind the Rookery and the new hospital plans will landlock those two sides so only the SEJ will have any room to extend.
    I agree that a move won’t be until Pozzos move on.
     
  5. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It’s not clear the hospital plans definitively landlock the stadium on that side.
     
  6. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    Looks pretty clear to me.
     
  7. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    Most of the hospital buildings near to the stadium are to be replaced and sold off for housing redevelopment or are part of the old workhouse and grade two listed. Might be able to grab 60 feet from the hospital land behind the SGT stand. The other point is that redeveloping all the land around the stadium may make the stadium land more valuable for redevelopment. Personally i think relocation is unlikely (my suggestion would be Radlett Road Playing fields and allotments) but if it did happen, the sell on value of the old ground might be an important consideration.
     
  8. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Reservist

    Walked past the ground today and they seem to have extended the SEJ to at least twice the size, while adding additional tiers to the GT and Vicarage Road stand. Got chatting to Dux and he said the 'surprise expansion' has brought the capacity to over 56,000. They've done well to keep it under wraps but I had to break the news here.
     
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  9. vic-rijrode

    vic-rijrode First Year Pro

    ...and here's a new photo (you can just see the Red Lion in the top RH corner, if you squint):

    upload_2019-7-12_17-36-41.jpeg
     
    ITK platypus likes this.
  10. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    I dont think you could double the capacity of the SEJ for several reasons.
    -Height restrictions due to local housing. This has already been mentioned for previous redevelopment plans.
    -Space behind. You cant build any further back than the turnstyle blocks are now. While its possible to extend the tier over the blocks it only gives about another 5 meters of extra space.
    -Corner infill. You have the club shop/sensory room/VIP lounge in one corner that would all need to be relocated. The other corner can never be filled in because its the only access to the pitch for groundstaff and emergency vehicles.
    -Movement of people. Occupation Road is about at capacity already with people exiting both the SEJ & the Rookery. Throw in several thousands more and you are asking for a disaster to happen.


    I think the only way to double the capacity of that stand is to buy up the houses on Liverpool Road and demolish them.
     
  11. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    He does resemble a galleon in full sail these days.
     
  12. nascot

    nascot First Team

    This is an important point. It's not possible to squeeze any more people in to the road after the game. The only way to allow more people would be to direct Rookery fans via Cardiff Rd.
     
    Stevohorn likes this.
  13. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    Actually in the time this thread has been running.. just over 4 years and 99 pages.. the capacity of Vicarage Road has gone down!
     
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I respect what you're saying but I don't believe they could not double the capacity of the SEJ stand. I think it's around 3,700 currently, and the GT stand is 6,960. I think you could get both stands to around 7,500 without too much trouble.

    There is a lot of space behind the SEJ stand. The current gradient is very steep, so that could be reduced and extended backwards. This would mean the height of the current stand would be about the same.

    I do not think crowd congestion would be a problem either. You could easily design the SEJ stand so the exits are at either end of a concourse. Fans could exit from close to the top of Occupation Road next to Vicarage Road or at the other end closer to Cardiff Road.
     
  15. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The re-profiling option has been explored on this thread before, with diagrams too. A significant expansion using that method doesn't look possible. And from a planning perspective the 'harm' caused to residents in Liverpool Street by an overbearing new stand will always be a big factor weighing against, compared with the impact on the hospital site. Even if there was equal room on both sides the considerations for a development on the East side will always be different to those on the West.
     
  16. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    All said and done, I think SEJ will be expanded and I think its capacity will be around 7,000 to 7,500 after the work has finished. I don't think the residents in Liverpool Street will have as much say as you probably think. If your house backs on to a football stadium, then you can't really complain too much if a new stand is build or expanded. Ok, you can complain, but the council can choose to ignore it.

    Don't forget, the pitch can also be levelled. This would add around 6 feet extra depth at the VR end. I think the Desso pitch is due to be re-laid in the near future. It's about 7/8 years old now, and it's only guaranteed for 10 years. When that is due to be dug up again, I think they will probably look to level the pitch and may even dig down taking the pitch lower at the Rookery end. This will allow 3 or 4 extra rows for seating.

    If SD is to believed, and I see no reason why anyone should distrust what he says, it's the only way we can get VR to a 30,000 capacity in the future. The SEJ has to be at least 7,000 (if not bigger) or the numbers just don't add up.
     
  17. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Can see both arguments. But what we do know is that it can be expanded. It’s been said more than once by Duxbury that the whole point of the SEJ structure being as it is, is that it is able to be made bigger. To what extent however, anyone’s guess but I suspect it would be be twice as big.
     
  18. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    If you make people exit towards Cardiff Road then you would have to make them go that way.. and everyone in the Rookery would have to go that way as well. I cant see people agreeing to that.


    There isnt that much space behind the SEJ Stand. I wrote something wrong in my earlier post as it's around 10 meters back from the current roof-line to the very outside of the entrance blocks. That's about half the depth of the current roof and personally i think that's a more realistic proposal.
    50% larger.. sure. Any more and the logistics become very difficult, if not impossible.
     
  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    You can have a concourse, similar to the GT stand. Exits would be at either end but not in the middle of the SEJ stand. This would mean people wanting to get out and walk along VR can do so as they would not be jostling with supporters in Occupation Road, They'd be walking within the SEJ concourse, which would be far less congested. If they wanted to walk the other way, they would get out at the Rookery end and walk in that direction. Either way, there would be no additional supporters walking down Occupation Road. In fact with this queue management system, there wouldn't be as many people as all fans from the SEJ stand would not be walking down Occupation Road at all.

    Entering the stand would be different, you'd enter through the turnstiles as normal.
     
  20. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Could we have a secret hidden tunnel to exit from the SEJ to say the red lion.

    As a child I was led to believe that there would be a lot more secret tunnels in adult life, and also quick sand. Maybe add some quick sand somewhere on the pitch
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It didn't work for the Nazis though, so I'm not too sure.
     
  22. fuzzy73

    fuzzy73 Reservist

    Rights to light have **** all to do with the council though

    That’s what the club will have to shell out to deal with
     
  23. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Reducing the size of the pitch would also help.

    Kids could sit on the grass behind the goals.

    This was trialled at the Sheff Wed match.
     
    Bwood_Horn and Happy bunny like this.
  24. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Nazis in the Red Lion?
     
  25. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    True but i feel that would reduce the number of seats in your corner sections. If you could post a draft of your plans later that would be a great help :)

    Btw When Duxbury talks of a 30K capacity stadium do you think he's gone as far as working out if it's achievable or just stating what the club wants? Personally i think it's the latter. So its not that people distrust him just that people may not believe it's possible.. plus some dont believe it's necessary.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I personally find SD to be an intelligent man. I don't think he's the type to suggest a 30,000 seater stadium without doing his homework on the feasibility of it in the first place. Of course he's speaking on behalf of Gino, so whenever SD says something, certainly on something like stadium development, he's also talking for GP as well. So it's clearly something the club have looked into. I don't think he'd have put a figure on the capacity had the club thought 30,000 was not achievable.

    He's stated it more than once also, so I believe there is some credibility behind it. Whether they get the necessary planning permission for this is another thing, but I believe there is a will to get it done within the council as well as the club wanting to do it.
     
  27. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    If my memory serves me right, the club recently commissioned a consultancy firm to work out exactly how we could achieve a 30,000 within the present site. That at least implies 30,000 was/is more of a strategic aim than a definitive number.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  28. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    It's a shame consultants are a hugely expensive, parasitic waste of space who ask to borrow your watch to tell you the time.
     
    Cthulhu and UEA_Hornet like this.
  29. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    In terms of the SEJ stand - where my Season ticket is - is there any plans to be able to get a coffee in less than 20 minutes?
     
  30. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Thermos?
     
  31. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    How many threads have hit 100 pages?

    Tommy Smith & the magnificent & enigmatic Vydra.

    Any others?
     
  32. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    I'm not suggesting he isnt an intelligent man.. just that he might be talking 30K as something to aim for rather than knowing for sure it's achievable.

    Anyway if he smart he should be reading this thread and taking on board my suggestion that the club start buying up the houses in Liverpool Road.. just as, ironically, Liverpool fc did. I reckon around 20 property would need to be purchased and possibly the Vicarage Road service station. There is a house in Liverpool Road currently for sale for £400k. So i would calculate it would cost somewhere around the £8-10M mark to purchase all the properties.
    Not a small amount of money but also not that substantial for the modern day wfc.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  33. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    I think this is right

    Article from last November-no new bar before the end of last season but hopefully will be there on Aug 10th

    https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/s...o-continue-phased-expansion-of-vicarage-road/
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    There are 18 properties that would be affected by the right of light. However, all but one of these properties have outbuildings or trees at the end of their gardens. You would have to raise the roof significantly for there to be any loss of light in the rear windows of these properties.

    I don't think the club need to be buying properties at all. You can imagine once residents twig the club are buying properties then the remaining few to sell would demand a fortune and could hold the club to ransom.

    I think the argument that residents in Liverpool Street are holding all the cards stopping the club from expanding the stadium is overplayed and not even an issue in all reality.
     
  35. Stevohorn

    Stevohorn Watching Grass Grow

    Where are you getting that from?
    I haven't seen anyone suggesting that the residents in Liverpool Street are holding all the cards stopping the club from expanding the stadium or indeed anyone seriously discussing purchasing the properties.. well apart from me.
     
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