Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Otter, Nov 16, 2020.
What? We beat liverpool last year, does that mean we had better players than them?
We may not have the best squad in the championship , but there is no doubt it is better than most other squads and we should be capable of beating most sides. At the very least we should be able to put together spells of decent possession and not get continually battered by average sides to the extent that we end up inevitably conceding .
Something isn’t working and we have been able to win games by having a bit of quality , but it is down to the Coach to get this team playing as a cohesive unit and so far that hasn’t happened.
Having said that I’m not a big fan of the hire and fire mentality so
I’d like to see Ivic given a chance to turn this round , especially as we are still ok points wise.
What a useless analogy, If we played Liverpool 12 times would we lose only 2?
You’re entirely missing the point, if teams are routinely playing better than us but not beating us and 50% of the time are in fact losing to us, it’s because they lack the quality to beat us, or in other words we have better players than them.
Here is an analogy for you, how often did we play well in the Aidy PL season but ultimately lost?
At least I didn't pay to watch it today.
Because the players from our relegated squad have mainly been retained and the gulf between the EPL and championship is huge. Have you seen the rubbish we’ve played against. We were 10 minutes away from being top. We are 5th...having been rubbish almost every game. If these players played to their true potential, as a team, in a formation they appreciated then we would be serious title contenders. Still are even playing like this. May just take you a while longer to realise that
Until it doesn't work out and everyone claims that it wasn't said in the first place.
It's like trying to argue with K-Pop stans. You may be clearly correct but it's unwise, unfulfilling and ultimately pointless.
What game of the season do you reckon we'll fulfill our potential, 20 games in, 30 games in?
It's not about the reputations or individual quality of the players, that's irrelevant now. It's about the collective, how they work together, what the team spirit is like, what the balance of the squad is like.
Fine, our squad is more expensive and a fair few of them could individually swan off and fit into Premier League squads. But we don't look like a cohesive unit at all. We've got out of jail so far by being marginally less crap than the opposition or through moments of individual quality. That's not going to be enough over the course of the season. We have more points than our performances deserve, I don't think anyone can deny that. It might click and we might go and destroy the league but I'd say it's far more likely that the first real sticky patch we have where we lose two in a row, we'll go into a tailspin and self destruct.
Ivic absolutely livid in his post-match press conference. Seems close to the end of his tether already.
"Without energy, without passion, from the beginning"
"We were lucky to score after 2 minutes"
"We were very very soft in the duels and second balls"
"If you don't have the winning mentality, you can not win the game"
"[It was a] passive defence, not active defence"
"If we have a big goal this year, we need to change our attitude"
"I believe my team can give me more. We need to wake up"
A lot of this ties in to what I've been saying about our midfield really lacking in energy and steel. @Halfwayline - it's a huge and inescapable deficiency in our squad at the moment (together with lethargic strikers).
It also is in line with what I've been pointing out about too many of our players still being either too young and lightweight (JP, Sarr, Garner, Quina, Wilmot at times) or too over-the-hill, lacking in energy and motivation (most of the rest).
Something will have to give soon if the current players can't buck up their ideas. Ivic's tactics have seemed very off at times this season for sure, but how much of our apparent poor performances and supposed inability to implement what Ivic has been trying to achieve down to Ivic, and how much down to deficiencies in the squad? QPR out-fought us today and just seemed to want it more - why is that?!
Buy what can give? Sack the manager and get another turd polisher in to suffer exactly the same fate?
I don’t really know what to think. Most managers in his position who were in fact tactically inept and out of their depth, would defend the performance, put a positive spin on it etc and in fact that is pretty much what most managers do anyway.
He’s clearly not happy and saying what all of us could see and felt watching the game. Taken at face value it seems like the players just aren’t carrying out his instructions.
If that is the case then we could sack him and it wouldn’t make a difference.
Not sure if it’s been mentioned already, but how come Welbeck never scored for us the type of goal he converted for Brighton today!
I did via hornets hive. Never again, it was like it was being filmed by an elderly uncle on a 1st gen Nokia - I actually felt travel sick watching it!
He did score an overhead kick to be fair. Only watched the MOTD highlights and he also missed some pretty good chances as well.
Pretty much the same story with us as far as I can see, but let’s not forget the issue with Welbeck wasn’t Welbeck, it was that Pearson insisted on playing Troy instead of him after the restart, despite Welbeck looking a lot more of a goal threat.
In contrast to some, I quite enjoyed the game, although the equaliser was a choker and I really thought we'd lost it with that disallowed goal for one awful second.
Quina is so light in the tackle. He seems to be trying a little too hard for me. Getting anxious. The more he tries, the more it seems to go wrong. When he got the ball midway in our half, with plenty of time to pick a pass, he ended up losing it altogether and it very nearly developed into a big chance for them. A horrible error.
I thought Kiko did well enough. He performs pretty consistently.
Some are criticising replacing Gray, but he really wasn't doing anything (apart from getting annoyingly offside) and swapping him for Troy was something that made sense. Pedro had also done very little first half, so changing him also made sense. Unfortunately though Quina was the wrong choice. Towards the end of the 1st half, it was evident that QPR were starting to control the midfield and that Ken was struggling to contain that bright Samuel fella on our left. I don't quite understand how Quina was going to help solve either of those problems.
He looked better further forward in this game, but he is an absolute liability in defensive mode. It's largely a problem with making wrong choices when on the ball and not being able to tackle reliably. He tries hard, to be fair.
His goal today was like the chance he missed v Sheff U last season.
Had we kept him fit we might have done better ?
We didn’t keep the ball well at any stage 2nd half !
We caused our own problems and had no threat in attack.
Since when did we sign Ronaldo?
I don't how to take this post: Is it a joke? Are you whooshing me? Or have you totally missed the point of what I was saying?
Just in case it's the last of these, all I'm saying is it's the job of a coach to coach, and that includes helping the players improve their individual games. And I see plenty of evidence that this isn't happening.
I thought the half time subs today smacked of changes for change’s sake. Ivic is obsessed with rotating the players and by changing two at half time the new rules meant he still had three changes left for the second half. I think he was so annoyed at the performance he was determined to leave the same eleven out there to make a point.
Having said that, Pedro’s inexperience is clear to see. His only function seemed to be to occasionally give a short pass to the overlapping Sema and not to impose himself on the game in any way. The huge mistake though was to ask Sarr to play as a striker once again. He can’t do it and constantly drifts out to the right, disconnecting him from his strike partner. On top of that he was having a poor game today, but on the right of a front three looks his best position.
Ivic has to take this result on his hands I’m afraid, his half time subs were pointless snd cost us 2 points; whilst Gray had a mare his movement was giving space for Pedro and Sarr to cause issues, if Ivic left it as it was I think we’d have been 2-0 entering the 65th minute and would’ve been able to see the game out. I want him to do well but Quina has been awful this season and needs a loan somewhere he’ll get regular football in his proper position which should sort him out. Deeney looked unfit and unwilling to get involved which is a concern. I still think we’ll do well this season and end up promoted back to the promise land of losing 6-0 to city twice a season but that’s mainly down to it being the worst championship for a long time.
It seems there are two camps.
One is the players just aren’t good enough, totally unbalanced squad and immaterial who the manager is he won’t get much more out of them. I would question why we had the chance to go top if the players were that gash in this league where the standard is poor
the other is that the players are good enough but for some reason not playing to their potential which nay be the tactics and/or the manager. Problem is I’d question this theory as I’ve felt like this about almost every squad since the Pozzos arrived
at least in most seasons post GT we knew we were rubbish but appreciated the spirit
Blimey, that was grim.
Ivic's job is to get the best out of his players - and he clearly isn't doing that. We have quality players for this division, yet they are not showing it. We were making some progress, but yesterday was a big step back. The fact that we are playing so far below our capabilities yet still a couple of points from the top of the table is the one positive.
I thought Cathcart did well most of the match, but not the "Captain" we need right now, and Kiko did well first half, but we were generally poor all over the pitch and the players and the coach (in his ability to do anything about it) let the club and their supporters down.
Unlike Halfwayline decent post above, I believe these players are better than what we are seeing. Many of them are Internationals, many of them were comfortable when we were top half of the Prem 2 years ago, many are seasoned Premier League players. They shouldn't be struggling to manage even the basics in the Championship.
But picking players like Quina out for criticism, when far more experienced players were as bad for the whole match, or judging them when the whole team are under performing is simplistic and wrong, in my view. The lad turned up at our gate at the end of a transfer period wanting to be given a chance, He cost virtually nothing, whilst we we have other players who took us months of negotiation and effort to sign (and an Elton John concert) and have been given chance after chance after chance on mega contracts doing no better. Why pick on Quina for trying and failing in his 45 minutes, when players like Deeney didn't try anything at all in 45 minutes. Along with Deeney, Capoue, Sema, Chalobah, Gray, all very poor. Yesterday, we saw a young player with ability and potential who (like Pedro) needs to be in a positive environment - just drowning in a pool of mediocrity in terms if effort and achievement on that pitch. We should wait to see young players in a good team environment before writing them off.
There may be reasons to criticise TD but it is unfair to give him blame for yesterday. Both he and Sarr contributed very little in the 2nd half, but what service or support did they have? It felt like no other players in the team crossed the halfway line in the 2nd half to show interest in attacking. In the first half we got forward in numbers and created (and failed to take) many opportunities but in the 2nd half we did no attacking.
Welbeck looked good during the mini 9 game season, and I was hoping he would stay with us but he wanted out so our loss is Brighton's gain unfortunately
Yep the viewers also had just the one positive.
Gotta love that mute button
I did and do pay to watch but it’s certainly not a pleasant experience, the picture quality is poor, or is it the cameras, or is it the players, never quite sure!
If you are talking about Hive, and others have said the same, although I think you may be tongue in cheek, the quality of the picture is really good for me, certainly better and far more reliable than streams. The only downside for me is the replays which I think they can only show at full speed, when it would be useful to see something in slow motion.
If only what we were watching was of a similar quality.
quality is fine but like the standard of football, nowhere near the multiple angles of sky in the Prem
It’s more the commentary of Tommy Mooney and then cutting back to the Vic to hear from dear old Lloyd that makes it feel far more amateurish than needs be
No I watch Hive and not tongue in cheek, in the studio everything’s fine, however the live match is as I said painful, I link my iPad to my tele with a cable and adapter, going to watch the next match solely on my iPad but did that for the first couple of games and experience was the same!
I've been wondering why Ivic seems to have shut out Ngakia recently, even taking into account the difficulties around his preferred formation. I wonder if this has anything to do with it, does an appearance mean a higher pay-out to spam? I don't understand these things.
It was more than that. Someone (can’t be arsed to look) claimed Capoue was the best player ever to play in the Championship.
Strange, I had it on my PC and casting down to my big TV, and my missus even commented on how sharp the picture was.
Well, based on his best performances at a higher level, it was a fair assumption that he would be close to that.
However, he's nowhere near the levels of Ricky Otto or Jan Aage Fjortoft.
There is no need to take offence because someone has questioned your views on football.
Sometimes you will be wrong . Sometimes you will be right . And sometimes you will be neither
wrong nor right .