Qpr 1-1 Watford Fc - 21/11/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Otter, Nov 16, 2020.

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What will the result be

Poll closed Nov 21, 2020.
  1. Watford win by 3 or more

    12.5%
  2. Watford win by 2

    22.2%
  3. Watford win by 1

    31.9%
  4. Score draw

    15.3%
  5. No score draw

    4.2%
  6. QPR win by 1

    9.7%
  7. QPR win by 2

    2.8%
  8. QPR win by 3 or more

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Whatever the Illuminati want you to believe the score will be

    1.4%
  1. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Is the gulf huge? Leeds are beating all and sundry. Sheff utd finished top ten. Wolves qualified for Europe. Us and Bournemouth stayed up effortlessly.

    The Premier league hype machine strikes again.
     
  2. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Possibly my Wi-fi although I am on fibre etc!
     
  3. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    You sort of forgot to mention that Leeds reportedly spent nearly 100m on their squad, wolves financials showed a 67m outlay and muff spent over 150m on their premier league dream. But apart from that, there is no difference at all
     
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Before the game the Hive had an Interview with Kiko who said he was surprised at how good some of the players were and how competitive it was..

    Perhaps both players and manager have been caught off guard at how you have to earn results and wins rather than just play for a half or so.
     
  5. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Seems you forgot to explain sheff utd, WFC and all the others who stay up easily. And I am pretty sure Bournemouth didn't spend £150m to stay up in the first season. LOL at these twisted facts
     
  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    The Sheffield Utd who are now bottom with a point in an even worse position that’s we were at this stage? WFC who are now back in the championship with Bournemouth?
     
  7. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Was that after one season then?

    You're all over the place here.
     
  8. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Hive live correctly called on a few occasions that Capoue wasn’t putting it in, even referencing that he needed to reach Chalobah’s level. He will have the odd moment of brilliance, but he’s not what we need. Gardner, and Hughes when he returns, give us so much more
     
  9. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    What about Fulham and WBA, how are they doing?

    I really have no clue of the point you are trying to suggest? Are you really saying a league that gives £100m to the bottom team in prize money and TV money alone, is no different in quality to a league we’re the TV money is worth only £5m?
     
    Halfwayline likes this.
  10. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    No, it wouldn't. The arbitration looks backwards at his time at West Ham to set the fee, rather than what he's doing now.

    Simply put, we have no creativity in the centre of the pitch, all of our chances come from out wide. Kiko is better going forwards. I'm sure that Ngakia would be playing if we had a back four but in our current formation, it makes sense to stick with Kiko.
     
  11. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    That was Mooney who just says the first thing that comes into his head. Neither were great yesterday but Capoue was markedly better than Chalobah.
     
  12. mindthegap

    mindthegap Academy Graduate

    I did enjoy the Ivic post match presser.
    I don't think Ivic has underestimated the league but some players,who got paid for doing nothing early in the season,think they are too good and don't have to put in 100% effort.
    Unless the club support Ivic and tell the players who the boss is this attitude will cost us.The Ivic post match presser has raised the stakes and the onus is now on the players to respond.If Deeney is still serious about being a pro footballer he'd better start earning his money because the captain usually sets the standard.
     
    Sahorn and Robert Peel like this.
  13. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    If the gulf was as huge as you say, promoted teams would all come straight back down. Yet this rarely happens. Therefore the gulf between the lesser premier league teams and and championship is not as great as the hype machine would have you believe.

    For more evidence see how our largely Premier league squad is struggling to beat championship teams.

    Hope this helps.
     
  14. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    The difficulty is, re Deeney (and I’m not saying this to have a go at him, it’s just how I see it) he’s now a poor mans Rooney towards the end of his top flight career. He’s playing a number 10, whose job is essentially to bring long balls down, hold the ball up and lay it off to someone like Sarr or another forward.

    He actually does that relatively well, but the question is, is that what we need? Don’t we actually just need a proper forward?
     
  15. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    sheff U spent less on the Prem dream than others. Their style caught others offguard In year one which is often the case. This year they are seeing the issues with the lack of investment and currently prop up the division

    Watford’s relationship with Udinese creates a different set of rules.

    The estimate of muff was based on their time in the epl. In year one their accounts showed a 5m profit. If you presume that you get 120-150m for being in the league then their outlay would appear to be 100m plus after costs of ground improvements etc

    but feel free to actually come back with any facts at all
     
  16. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Check the championship table, have a look at who the top two are.

    You're arguing against yourself and basic economics.
     
  17. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    I can only presume he’s on a wind up, his thoughts are based on playing FIFA or is totally deluded
     
    a19tgg likes this.
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Yep I’ve come to the conclusion he’s on a wind up too, I don’t think anyone could genuinely be trying to make those points.
     
  19. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Capoue still has by far the most interceptions per 90 minutes of regular starters in the league so far this season - he's currently on 4.6 per 90, the next top is on 4.

    It wasn't Capoue's best game yesterday, but he's not the first player we need to replace in CM.
     
  20. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Yes. I think people are still influenced by Capoue's apparently languid style. They read it wrongly. Having said that, I thought he was poor yesterday, as well. (Mind you, that only makes him one of a long list.)
     
    BigRossLittleRoss and wfc4ever like this.
  21. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I have just watched Ivic's post-match interview. He seems to be complaining about a lot of the things we are complaining about. One question is: 'Does that absolve him, or not?'
    There are so many things that seem to be wrong in our matches it is difficult to know where to start; although plenty of you have already made reasonable suggestions. Even more perplexingly, yesterday we were 10 minutes away from going top of the division.
    How well a player plays is strongly influenced by how well his team-mates play, although I will say I thought a couple of players deserve praise: Femenia (although he was given the freedom of the pitch by QPR in the first half) and Cathcart (I think he was Watford's (and I stress Watford's) man of the match.)
    It is also worth mentioning that "In football everything is complicated by the presence of the opposition". Give Warburton some credit - maybe the half-time turnaround was due to his success rather than Ivic's failures. Although, if our attackers had done their job adequately, the game would have been over after half an hour.
     
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    This is what I’m confused by, most managers most of the time put a positive spin on a performance. How often do both managers say they should’ve won the game and were unlucky, even though it’s obviously rarely true for both of them.

    As you say, he’s saying exactly what we’re all saying. His record before us is great and he did play exciting football. It appears to all intents and purposes the players just aren’t following his instructions and putting in the required effort levels.

    I’m not sure what can be done about that, who out there in the football management world who is available right now could motivate these players to carry out their instructions?
     
  23. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    He has to learn that in English football you shouldn't even consider protecting a lead until it's at least two goals...
     
  24. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    On top at HT, ripping them to shreds down the right, makes two random subs at half time replacing players who haven't been on international duty this week (after moaning about the ones that had all week), completely go into a shell, don't make one more single in road down the right, makes no more changes leaving on the players who played internationals to play the whole game and not using more subs after complaining about not being able to.

    Then questions the teams desire.

    One of the oddest coach performances I've ever seen.
     
    poakley, DaveWFC, UEA_Hornet and 3 others like this.
  25. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    Maybe the players subconsciously don't buy into his ultra-cautious approach. It may be that is why Sarr looks so lacking in confidence, because Ivic is telling him NOT to do what he was obviously bought for in the first place. That malaise will spread through the whole squad very quickly. Players will accept an approach that makes sense, even if it reduces their individual playing time, but if enough of them decide the tactics do not make sense, then you start to get the performances we are seeing.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  26. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I’d agree that might be the case, however it’s what seems to happen eventually with every single manager sooner or later. At the end of the day they’re players and are paid to play not manage. Whether they agree with a system or not it’s their job to listen to the manager and carry out his instructions. It may they are actually right about Ivic this time, but were they right about every other manager? Is it their place to be decided such things?
     
  27. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    First game of the season I have missed and seems like I didn't miss much! Although when I saw we were 1 up after 3 mins I did wonder if I had made the right choice. This has all the hallmarks of GT and Boothroyd's failed bounce back promotion seasons, I've said it before now. Up near the top in the early days of the season but with that nagging feeling we really shouldn't be there based on performances.

    I'm preparing myself for a few years of Championship football to be honest, but this is nothing we haven't been used to before. I just can't see us going up when you have Norwich and Bournemouth now looking decent and Reading seem to be a surprise package (there's always one).

    I just don't have that same excitement looking at the players in the squad that I did when we went up under Joka a few years back, or even under Boothroyd in the 2000's.
     
  28. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I was making my point in the context that, in the Champ, this squad SHOULD be playing much better and dominating teams more often, but they don't seem committed to a style that seems to be contrary to the obvious strengths in that squad. What happened in the recent PL seasons could be just as much attributed to the fact that clever tactics & set-ups got sussed out by PL coaches & (much better) players by the time we came to play the reverse fixtures, and the squad we had was not good enough to continue the earlier levels of performance. I have never really been convinced by the "downing tools" hypothesis, more that the good starts to seasons were often us over-performing and catching teams off guard. If we look at the famous 4 wins at the start of the 2018-9 season, then we deserved to beat BHA & Burnley, were lucky to beat Palarse & neither us nor Spurs deserved a point from the other game, so turgid was it. So I'm not sure the "fall-off" was really down to poor attitude, just that we weren't good enough to keep pulling off those results.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  29. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    Agree with this. Bring back Derek Payne
     
  30. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    You are wrong (not for the first time), the arbitration panel also looks forward in setting the compensation, and can take into account playing appearances at the new club, as well as international appearances.
     
  31. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Capoue is so frustrating (and not just this season). He’s a very talented footballer but he so rarely uses his physicality to the benefit of the team. And his only positive pass is the diagonal ‘worldie’ to the wing. Most of the time his first thought is to keep possession by passing back to a defender. Where are the incisive low forward passes into the midfield or strikers to instigate an attack?
     
  32. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Yes, hear hear; but Derek Payne is still commentating - on 3CR. However, the lead commentator (name?) is not as good as Jon Marks.
     
  33. Harrow Orn

    Harrow Orn Squad Player

    Our biggest problem for me is Chalobah and Capoue. They're not imposing themselves in midfield. Both ducked out of challenges yesterday which was infuriating. Definitely missed Cleverley's energy in midfield. I was surprised Garner didnt get put on to help out.
     
  34. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Learn something new every day! I thought it was set based on how long they'd been at a club, how many appearances and the level they were made at, what level their academy is etc.
    Can you post the link to where you found this out? It seems a bit weird that if he's currently playing that would inflate the fee, otherwise surely clubs wouldn't play players until after the arbitration panel had decided the value, then they would start playing them afterwards!
     
  35. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    One of the issues that to me, at least, seems noticeable, is our refusal to build play through the middle. Our constant, infuriating tactic of stopping, turning and passing sideways or back to the defence seems to be in support of this, and this aspect must be down to Ivic. He must be telling them to always try and favour the wings and get it out to the side, because there can't be any other explanation for our predilection to it, and it's very limiting, especially when we have the strikers that we do.

    In terms of how good the players and quad that we have are or are not relative to the Championship, the real problem is that we're not competing with the rest of the league - we're competing with Norwich and Muff. They both have effectively retained their prem squads too; the difference being that they seem to have retained a coherent and competent style of play and managed to incorporate new/previously underused players successfully to the point they are having an impact, rather than doing nothing at all. Muff have managed to get Dominic Solanke, a player genuinely meme-worthy he was so bad at Premier League level, leading the line and scoring goals, for god's sake. We can argue about how good our squad is relative to the rest of the league till the cows come home, but it's pretty moot - the comparison is against those two squads, and how well it is working internally. That is our major issue when assessing the team, and we come out looking pretty poor as it stands.

    Out of all this, one thing's for sure: Relegation Certs is always on a wind up.
     

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