Paris Terrorist Attack

I've never really been a fan of Pope music myself either.

 

All stems from Judism, which follows some Ancient Egyptian and Sumerian texts. There is a creator I believe but they really dont give a hoot about being worshipped or what you get up to. Peace.

 

Quite like what the Pope has been saying on his recent trip.

I wasn't a particular fan of his predecessor, Emperor Palpatine, but not for the first time I find myself thinking that Pope Francis seems like a very decent and grounded chap.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30835625

 

I disagree, I'm afraid. The Pope is afraid of a zeitgeist in Europe where it's open season on religion. We shouldn't mock the Catholic faith? After the Crusades, the extermination of the Cathars in South-West France. the Inquisition, the Magdalene sisters, the Christian Brothers, paedophile priests...

Sorry pal, until we see real contrition and a desire to a) make amends and b) show proper and deep rooted reform, then the Catholic church is ripe for ridicule.

 

Lovely clear diagram.

I am a Scientist. I do not think that there is a personal God, or a man in the clouds who can change outcomes with a prayer or two. But there are many modes of thinking that do not depict such a simplistic view.

I like the idea that there could be an omnipotent spiritualist element entrenched in every part of nature, in every part of the universe. The universe could, in a metaphorical sense, sit within God. A perfect harmony and maintenance of forces. I do not believe that any of the above religions are correct, but I also think that they are all right in trying to explain something which they feel but cannot understand. Their thoughts are just guided by how much of the world they are available to see, how literally and concretely they see the world, and how the world has been taught to them.

I don't believe anything that is found in science is false, (the complete opposite, it is exposing the laws of the Universe) and I think that we should discover all we can through the sciences to help explain as much as we can, but I find many arguments through a reductionist, purely biological lens incredibly limiting. For example, I would suggest that our brains are a necessary, but not sufficient, explanation for human consciousness, personality and culture.

But in terms of heaven and hell, the saved and the damned and the father figure looking over you I would agree with Freud: what a coincidence it would be if a father figure looked down and fulfilled all of our needs, fears, insecurities and desires, at no cost but utter devotion.

 

:sign5:

 

Science is pointing us in the direction of us being God observing ourselves I believe. I have been a spiritual witness to this over the last year. We do create our own reality but not just on a physical plane. It is hard to explain.

Everything is one.

 

An aside to divert from the outbreak of navel-gazing ...

Why were the four Jewish coffins flown to Israel for burial? I understand that Jews are fearful of a growing tide of anti-semitism in France and that Netanyahu has issued an open invitation for all French jews to go and live in Israel. But flying all four coffins out of the country sounds like a pretty clear rejection of France and its Republican values of l.e.f. to me.

One for specific reasons I could understand. But all four?

p.s. A piece of lazy religious stereo-typing. Apparently (and this did happen a few days ago now) there's a bloke in Belgium who has tried to trademark "Je suis Charlie". Without contacting the magazine although he claims he's doing it on their behalf. This bloke's first name is Yanick. Yanick is a Hebrew name.

 

I can kinda understand your first sentence. Although I might have put it as starting to 'understand the mind of God'. What does being a 'spirutual witness' involve? You could try explaining!

 

I can agree with most of this. I only get upset with 'religionists' for two reasons:

1. When they insist that their way is the one true way, that everything in their book should continue to be interpreted literally and then try and foist that view on everyone else. This denies us the ability to move on together in common humanity. The themes common to all religions of treating each other equally and seeking understanding and enlightenment are far more important than the idiosyncrasies that divide them. The latter should be left behind. They hold us back. But none of these common themes need to come from organised religion anyway. We can find them all within ourselves. It's called being human.

2. As an extension to that, where religion (derived from a subjective and slavish devotion to ancient texts) comes into conflict with objectively derived science, the former is clung onto for centuries despite all the evidence to the contrary. The disrespect comes from not respecting the work that all the millions of scientists have put in using the scientific method to search for objective truth, presumably with the brains God gave them to do so. Not the other way around. Obviously this conflict manifests itself most clearly in the evolution v creation 'debate'. Anyone who continues to cling to the latter deserves to be mocked, ridiculed and marginalised until the pips squeak. In particular, don't let any of them anywhere near our kids in a school outwith history lessons.

As for the big unanswered questions. Well the big-bang is pretty hard to comprehend. What the hell's a 'singularity'? So if anyone wants to propose 'God' as being involved there in the sense of lighting the blue touch paper, retiring and BANG!! then fine. But there's no evidence 'he' has been around any time since and certainly not in being instrumental in starting life going, being at all interested in what we get up to on a day-to-day basis or watching 'every sparrow that falls'. Hey - it's a big universe - maybe 'he' is off on business somewhere else!

Will science eventually answer ALL the questions? Who knows? It'll certainly continue to chip away at the 'how' questions but probably continue to struggle with the 'why' questions which will perhaps always require a more mystical solution.

P.S. I have said before on these threads that maybe time's up for evolution on this planet as we've understood it up until now anyway. There is now an organism on the planet that understands it and can therefore control it - us. We selectively breed dogs and cereal crops for features we desire. We have plotted the entire genome for us and a number of more primitive organisms. We transfer genes across the boundaries of natural world kingdoms. Animal to plant. Flounder to strawberry. For features we desire. We have created entirely new single cell organisms. Very soon we will be able to create much more complex ones. We can decide whether we want to save Tigers, Pandas and Elephants and preserve the ecosystems they live in or let them die out. We are preserving seed banks of as many plants as possible with a view to re-creating them at any time if we wish or need to in the future. We will soon be able to preserve animal d.n.a. and do the same thing (if we're not already doing so). The jury's currently out on 're-creating' the Mammoth. The point of evolution via random mutation/natural selection/survival of the fittest is that it's blind. None of the above is blind. It's all, or will all, be targeted by us for our own purposes. OK - we might leave some bits of the natural world to carry on as normal because we're not particularly interested in them or as museum exhibits of 'how things used to be'. But we will have the ability to control everything.

Some people call this 'playing God'. Maybe it is. Whatever, it will certainly move Darwin to the history section too.

p.p.s. miked2006. Isn't some of what you've said simply because it makes you feel better to think that's maybe the way it is?

 

Without question Man made God rather than the other way around. There is no evidence whatsoever for the alternate position. No amount of religious effort, zeal or reaction will change that. I'd be grateful if religious people would hurry up and accept this so we can move on, consider together the ineffable and see whether we can't just for once and for all bloomin well eff it.

 

Maybe if you could accept that 'religious' and God are not one and the same thing you could move on.

 

Gods are an invention of man end of. They're the obvious way to explain the unexplainable in times when science didn't exist and to bolster the words of mostly well intentioned but also very human prophets. The Bible, Koran or any other religious texts are nothing but tools used to establish order in the world and despite many wars, religion has mostly done a good job in keeping it. However science has taken over, it's secrets unveiled and often beyond proof. Clerical fabrications are no longer worth killing for and surely it's time to recognize them for what they are .... Just a good read!

 

There are a few discussions I pretty much stay out of, and this is one of them.

I used to take part in my school assembly, which was a C of E affair. But since then I rarely bother. I go to churches for weddings, funerals, christenings, etc. But I cringe (to myself) at my friends who seem to suddenly become church goers, so that they can have a wedding at the church, and cringe at the church that insist on it. But I take part in the services and am often moved by them and I sometimes wonder if I should become more involved as I look at my dear old nan who was quite religious. She would be now no horrified at the goings on down at the farm in Emmerdale these days. I can just hear here exclaiming "Oooh, I say!" or "Oh, well I never!". I could never dismiss the friendship, companionship and contentment she had from her church in her final days.

Religion, faith, etc, is not just whether there is a God, or what form he takes, it goes much, much further than that.

But do I "believe"? No not really, but do I want to dismiss everything? No not really either. I am just quite happy dipping in and out when it suits me.

I just don't like people ramming it down my throat, or telling me what I should be thinking - but that goes for many things, including certain types on here.

...and this rambling post, is why I tend to stay out of discussions that don't involve specifics.

 

Moved on years ago. It's of no consequence to me what private spirituality people have.

 

When I look at the world I find it hard not to believe in God.

And find it even harder to believe that, in simplistic terms, a big bang caused this.

 

The people ramming the "lack of God" down our throats on here are no better than the religious zealots that they don't like imo.

 

Why? What do you believe then?

 

Who's doing that? I agree with you. I don't think science says anything about 'God' one way or another despite what Richard Dawkins might say. All science says is, here are some mechanisms, objectively researched, to explain what was previously not understood.

 

Jumbo you do like to find a reason to boil your own wee, one of the criticisms you have for people who 'take offence'. Mike made a rambling post speculating on the inadequacy of purely scientific epistemology. I and others have just responded to that on the grounds of you don't need to invent God to fill that gap. Jeez. No one's ramming anything down your throat except you and long Friday lunch.

 

The Universe is undoubtedly expanding. The Big Bang only takes us back to it's contracted state. Doesn't tell us much about the why, why was there energy in the first place that coalesced into matter during the expansion. But as that lies beyond the observable universe we can only speculate. But it doesn't lead me to God because then I'd just ask 'where did God come from'?

 

God made me. Why did I have to die?

:dino:

I'm in dinosaur heaven with XX [INSERT NUMBER] of dinosaur s l u t s, not virgins, s l u t s who know exactly how to pleasure a dinsoaur.

 

He came from Lincoln city

 

In which case your o is ridiculous.

 

A religious zealot being what....anybody who believes in a god presumably?

 

If you are saying that an atheist zealot is as bad as any religious one then I would entirely agree with you!

 

No. I agree with Jumbo. The God yes or no question currently has no answer.

 

Big Bang or God, both seem ridiculous, perhaps something in between?

Do people believe in life after death though, God or not?

 

Science over religion.

 

All religions are a load of nonsense, but I think there is a definite correlation between the amount of rules a religion has and the more ridiculous it is.

 

Death to you! How dare you insult my nihilism. I instruct all those who believe in nothing to believe in the righteousness of striking Kelso down. Kill the moderate!

 

Why is a big bang ridiculous? Science doesn't work by thinking about whether something sounds a bit silly or not. It observes and draws conclusions which are often mathematical and complicated. Especially in physics. In this case it observes that the universe is expanding from whatever point you choose to observe it from. Sounds like it all started in one place then. Are you proposing a 'quite loud bang' - a bit like a starting gun?

I don't believe in an afterlife per se. However, if there is something called our 'soul' beyond our physical bodies then it would be reasonable to assume that that material would be recycled in the same way as the material in our physical bodies is recycled i.e. not into another single organism - but more broadly scattered.

Just a thought ...

 

My mates are manning the barricades on Hadrian's Wall as we speak ...

 

I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that to think about the beginning of everything and how the big bang could have happened in itself is bonkers. How did it come about, was a previous universe collapsing until a big bang occurred, what was there before the big bang, what is the universe expanding into exactly etc etc? Just thinking about it for a short while leaves me feeling so insignificant that I stop.

 

The 'Big Bang' is not ridiculous though. It's just arrived at by the observation that the universe is expanding in every direction so if you run time backwards it would have all been together at some point, approx 14bn years ago. It's doesn't tell you what to do with your life true enough.

I don't believe in life after death, but if there is first one in sets up WFC Forums in the afterlife.