[CONFIRMED] Juraj Kucka

Agreed. Replace it with other random temporary displays or something the players themselves come up with. Something that elements in the crowd can't claim to be linked to political terms that half have never heard of because they feel threatened or angered by equality.

 

The time to stop it will probably be when no fan has a problem with it.

 

Personally I think a a co-ordinated "We've got the message across" stop is better than the numbers kneeling gradually petering out and giving the impression that player by player squads are gradually deciding it's not important anymore. Visually a co-ordinated stop would be better IMHO.

 

The fact that they are still booed suggests that the message has not been received.

 

Maybe, but do you think continuing, with dwindling numbers and apathy, is more likely to get the message across ?

 

If that's what they decide to do, sure. Although all the clubs in the league decided to continue with it before the season started. I can only think of Toney, Zaha and now maybe Kucka (may be a couple more, I haven't heard?) who have chosen not to take part. Out of 400+ players that's quite a low number so it doesn't seem like support for it amongst players is declining.

If Watford came out and said the players have discussed it and decided collectively not to take the knee anymore, I'd support that fully. As it is, they've collectively decided to continue doing it, so I support that too.

 

I have no doubt that, like most people in Britain, footballers genuinely want to fight racism. But they should adopt a gesture that isn’t linked to a very flawed political movement. No matter how the EPL, Sky, Gary Lineker etc etc try to spin it, this new ritual will always be seen by many people – myself (and hopefully my new favourite player, Kucka) included – as a tacit endorsement of BLM. That's why we disapprove of it.

 

Taking the knee started with an American Football star before the BLM started as a movement & definitely well before any putative negative politicisation of it. Maybe it should continue to be seen that way when done within a sporting context.

 

Ah, the 2021 “I’m not a racist, but….”

 

Despite being told again and again and again and again and again and again by clubs, managers and players that's it's categorically *not* an endorsement of any political party/Marxist agenda etc etc?

I think you're switched on enough to know that any anti-racism gesture chosen by players will be twisted by those don't like facing the realities of their own prejudices. Whether it's a raised fist, taking the knee, not singing the national anthem, walking off the pitch, or literally any other message that inconveniences racists in any way, certain people/newspapers will deliberately misinterpret it for their own agenda.

 

There is BLM and there is the concept that Black Lives Matter. I can’t see why you should have a problem with BLM in the first place, but to have a problem with the concept Black Lives Matter is woeful. Not even The Sun wants to fight that battle.

Combatting discrimination is never going to be easy, painless, without conflict. Change requires effort. It’s a shame your efforts are put towards resisting mild gestures like this because that seems to go against your assertion that most people want to fight racism.

 

No idea on numbers elsewhere but at least 2 watford players didn't TTK. Kucka and Dennis.

 

So the vast majority still did. I'm sure Dennis and Kucka have their own reasons, which they're entitled to share or keep to themselves. As I'm sure the rest of our players have their reasons for continued to take the knee. And it's not my place to tell them that they should/shouldn't be doing it. They're doing what they've decided to do and should have our support.

 

I don’t think that’s a helpful comment. I don’t agree with Lloyd and see the taking the knee in the context described eloquently by Since63 above. However, the gesture was also adopted by BLM UK which have some pretty extreme political views so I can understand some players abstaining for that reason. That doesn’t justify booing it of course.

 

It’s interesting that you simply parrot out that they have ‘extreme’ views. I bet you’ve not engaged with anything to do with them first hand.

From the website for clarification,

Black Lives Matter UK is not committed to the same political stance or means as political radical far left activists.

'Defunding the police’ is often misunderstood and sounds worrying and alarming on hearing new grabbing headline through social the media and mainstream media. The public often mistakes defunding the police for either abolishment or taking away all funding from the police service; this is not what defunding the police means.

 

I haven't heard anything from Kucka on the matter so I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt (especially as he's just come to England). Toney has given a perfectly valid reason for not taking the knee, if you look back at my previous comment. I basically agree with him that it's just a token gesture, I'm not saying everyone that disagrees with it is a raving racist, but there are a lot of people who disagree with it for disingenuous reasons. As far as I can tell, Toney isn't outraged by it like a lot of fans anyway...

 

It’s plastered all over Twitter you dope. They had a Q&A on it where their political views were clear. I’m sure you can find it on google in about 10 seconds. Alternatively you can read it on their website.

Note this is BLM UK. I think BLM are more focused on core message.

 

Don’t call me a ‘dope’. You simply betray your ignorance of the subject matter.

You are someone who has never read further than a prejudicial headline in your life. I urge you to look a bit a further and examine what your reluctance to do so says about you.

 

Very gracious of you

You do know we live in a country where people can choose to live how they wish, within the boundaries of the law

He can choose to take the knee or not take the knee and no one has any right to question him on it

 

He can do what he likes, for whatever reason he likes, likewise people are allowed to praise or criticise him for it

 

But you called him ‘probably a Nazi’ and @zztop thought you really, really meant it.

 

Dennis didn’t take the knee either, I think it was just him and Kucka from the Watford side though

Personally I think the ‘will they won’t they’ question around knee taking from teams or individual players is becoming a bit farcical. Let those who want to do it do it but don’t scrutinise or make assumptions about the motivations of those who don’t

 

Anti-capitalism is an extreme viewpoint which I don’t agree with. However in the sporting context this isn’t what taking the knee represents. Thus I’d do it as a player and I applaud it from the stands.

I merely offered a reason why some might not. And for that you have decided on a public forum to assert that I must be a racist.

I can’t stand people like you. Your assertion was in no way warranted.

 

Yep, and were allowed to praise or criticise you for it.

 

Is that him, or is it one of his international teammates?

 

Number 19 is Kucka.

 

To be fair, the taking of the knee has happened long before any organisation or slogan called Black Lives Matter ever came into existence

 

I haven’t asserted anything of the sort. You can provide your own explanations for why you want to persist with this view. For the avoidance of doubt I’m saying that repeating this as the first port of call for any discussion is unhelpful. Do you want to be unhelpful in this context?

People have eagerly grasped at this view to discredit BLM, simply won’t engage with it first hand. You are moderate in accepting the intention and context within which footballers do it, but you must see that this endless repetition of ooh it’s the Marxists is simply an excuse for some to bin it and we have seen where it leads.

And don’t call me a ‘dope’. You’d probably get a better response.

 

He looks quite different there doesn't he?

 

Is our guy taking the knee here or simply suffering from being a 34 year old midfield general?

 

Public service announcement - there is another thread about this guy in the Team Bus where people actually talk about what he's like as a player:

https://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/juraj-kucka.58617/

 

What view? It's not my view. The BLM UK twitter account posts "We are not a Marxist Organisation......................we are however, all anti-capitalists". It's not my view. It's theirs. They would do better to focus on the core anti-racist message rather than extreme (in my opinion) political views. Blame them for clouding the message, not me.

I am no longer engaging with you. You simply seek to make vile insinuations even when I actively applaud taking the knee at football. You and me are done full stop. Do not make any further of your false assertions or for the first time ever I'll get the mods involved.

 

I agree. Which is what inspired the footballers rather than any political motives.

 

Boring!