Ivic Out.

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcmoog, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Keep him.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  2. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    He has scored 1 goal in 1 and a half games since returning from injury. And yes he will miss chances, just like Jesus did with the glorious headed chance against Liverpool.
     
  3. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    He not doing a good job so far. 2nd last week and 5th at the moment. In the promotion hunt.
     
  4. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    On Sky's Soccer Saturday thingy, all Merson could say first half was how dangerous we looked every time we went forward. In the 2nd half he just seemed bemused at what we were (not) playing at.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  5. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I have posted this as a serious assessment on more than one occasion...
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Agreed.

    Yet Vlad wasn’t happy it seems.

    Guess he thought we were too open and attacking first half !!
     
  7. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    And that is exactly why he runs the risk of screwing up promotion....you cannot have a strategy of 1-0 wins with a squad overflowing with attacking talent, but light on destructive midfielders & with an average defence. It's obvious that the two 3-2 wins have spooked him, when, in fact, his best tactic would be to challenge most teams to outscore us.
     
    põder, SkylaRose, UEA_Hornet and 2 others like this.
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Well, the answer is a root and branch reform of the club and how we do things: from recruitment, coaching and player styles

    We thought that relegation might have been the catalyst to make that happen, but it seems that it wasn't.

    I watch this team and see the same fragility, The same playing without any form of expression or ambition as we saw last season.

    If the ball is there, they'll take it, if the shot is on, they'll shoot, but there's little more too it.

    Compare how wycombe dug into their very souls, how an 18 stone 50 year old man for then, absolutely dominated us.

    We are a rotten club. Ivic is no good but getting rid of him won't fix it.
     
    Burnsy and Carpster like this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    And none of it is down to him.

    One off moments of magic from players who ostensibly could be playing at a far, far higher level than this are not because of anything he's doing.

    The way we line up, the patter of our play, the tactics, the selection, the subs - all rank. He's doing his best to get sacked but the players keep screwing it up by nicking the odd goals here and there or getting lucky refereeing decisions in their favour.
     
    Smudger, Chumlax and Jumbolina like this.
  10. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    Well 12 games in and I'm totally uninspired. It's just so hard to watch. I was all for giving Ivic getting the job but now I can see it slipping through his fingers.
    A positive start yesterday going one up early but no offence to QPR we should of put them to the sword. Resulting in an average Rangers side making us look rubbish. We're far too deep as always and I still can't understand his tactics going into a match or this attempt at protecting a lead. Again we were lucky to get anything out of the match in the end. I'm at a loss at the moment to see what we're trying to achieve every game.
     
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Let's be honest, the goal credited to him this season was extremely generous. It was an own goal, but he got lucky as the ball (probably) brushed him on the way in. He did nothing on his own to score that one.
     
  12. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Right place, right time.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  13. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    I've said this before, but Ivic needs to understand that in English football, at pretty well any level, the "continental 1-0, manage the match out" really needs to be 2-0....at least, as what happened the then league leaders yesterday shows.
     
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    He often is. His positioning is actually pretty good, but he can never sort his feet out quickly enough. This is why he miskicks the ball so often.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  15. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Reservist

    Apparently he said in his post game comments that the subs were not to defend a 1-0 lead.
     
  16. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    You're preaching to the choir. He lacks basic footballing ability but his run to be there for that goal to bobble in off his arse was spot on.
     
  17. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    Which makes the decisions even more bizarre.
     
  18. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    Yep. Other than Ken, Pedro, Jezza and Hughes I'm struggling to see anyone in the entire squad with the ability AND right attitude.

    Managers come and go, but the malaise and disinterest remains.

    I'm largely Ivic in - 1. Because who else is going to improve this shower, and 2. Because he isn't shy about pointing out the failures and unacceptable performances.
     
  19. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Too early to get rid. Completely agree. Sounds like he messed up yesterday, with in game changes but the new formation sounds promising. Hopefully he learns from his mistakes!
     
  20. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Think you can add Wilmot, Ekong, Foster and Femenia too. Mostly seems to be the new players who fit the category you're describing though
     
  21. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I thought the subs yesterday were bizarre and I said at the time we genuinely played like we thought QPR couldn’t possibly score.

    Yet even with the bizarre subs and apparent change in mindset we still had more than enough to still trouble QPR.

    Bear with me here, but if you look at Spurs performance yesterday, they invited City on to them, soaked up all the pressure, then scored two great counter attacking goals.

    Obviously we aren’t Spurs and Sarr isn’t Son, but QPR definitely aren’t City, they’re all to a man worse than us not better like you could argue City possibly are compared to Spurs.

    My point is we still had enough talent to hit QPR on the break, despite the subs, but we didn’t, we just sat back and made no attempt to do so until the last 5 minutes. The relative ability to do it is there, but they just didn’t bother to do it.
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  22. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    We certainly do. If we had one good one QPR would have been beaten by 30 minutes. Gray is the nearest we've got and I think Ivic was wrong to take him off: Not because he's great, but he's a percentage man - you have to keep supplying him with chances and eventually he gets one on target. We habitually create relatively few chances and so Gray is exposed for what he is.
    Finding a really good goal-grabber is one of the hardest things in the entire football business. Not for nothing do we remember them decades after they have retired: Holton, Blissett, Jenkins, Johnston, Phillips.
     
  23. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Sorry HB, but you know better than that: Gray makes the runs and plays the percentages - he is a specialist in scoring scrappy goals. That goal was a classic example of that. He needs lots of chances because he isn't very good, but he is the only player in the squad who comes close to making the right movements in front of the opposition goal. (Murray used to and might still, but he's 186 years old; and Perica I'd need to see more of).
     
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    He was unlucky with that chance when it just went past the post.

    Defiantly just needs to be in the area for any crosses - if we decide to do that.
     
  25. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    It's very possible (read: incredibly probably) that Ivic has been dealt a hand that is, in practice, made more difficult by the piss-poor attitudes, mentality and commitment of a decent amount of our squad.

    The problem with that as analysis/something used to weigh the scales in justifying his performance as Head Coach is that if that is indeed the case, it cannot be argued that recognising that and taking steps to counteract or change it are a key part of his job description. It was, in fact, one of the main PR checklist points waved about when we brought him in - that he was a no-nonsense hardass who wouldn't take any **** from our overpaid prima donnas. As it is, we are 12 games in, and what appear to be the effects of that are rampant; Ivic himself was even railing against it in his post-match presser yesterday.

    We haven't yet really been shown any vision on-pitch of what his tactical plan is, to be honest, or how he intends the team to play, and unfortunately we have to add to that criticism his inability to crush that player negativity; not use it in mitigation. As it stands, every aspect of his stewardship is a big red cross in the box, with no real indications yet of any transitions into big green ticks.

    Unless he shows at least one of those soon, I agree with HB and any others who have expressed a belief that he might be gone sooner rather than later. This season is a unique opportunity, and we are hugely in danger of lazily passing it up. I would imagine he might well know that too, which is why he felt the need/comfortable to go what is (as we understand from those who know him better) his interpretation of apeshit last night.
     
  26. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    We had four good chances to score, but fluffed the lot: -

    1. Andre Gray should buried the one that he mishit instead and dribbled the ball towards goal.
    2. Ekong had a free header from near the penalty spot and somehow screwed it well wide.
    3. Pedro should have hit his shot first time instead of taking a touch before hitting it.
    4. And finally Sarr from an almost identical position to where Chair scored for QPR , opted to go for the near post whereas Chair shot across Big Ben to the far post, which is what Sarr should have done to their keeper.

    Any half decent forward would probably of buried all four of those chances, but unfortunately we don't have one of those!!!
     
    Forzainglese, wfc4ever and UEA_Hornet like this.
  27. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    He's a nice man and some of the issues are not his fault but the likes of Floppo and some players who having come back into the team think they are too good for this level and that floating around will be sufficient. But playing players out of position, being negative, not changing tactics is down to Ivic. I'm starting to lose faith in him.

    We have reached that ten game mark and apart from the odd half hour we have looked pretty unconvincing as a side that wants promotion. Perhaps someone from the opposition can kindly kick Capoue early on as that seems to get him motivated. And stop picking Crapobah and Quina. Bloody appalling the pair of them. Stick Wilmot in there perhaps and bring Kabasele into his beloved back three if that is what he wants to stick with regardless of what the opposition do.
     
  28. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Giraldi the bogeyman getting a mention again after a poor performance. Shock.
     
  29. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    And even more so that he had 50 minutes and up to 3 more subs in his pocket, but chose not to affect any change.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  30. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'm not sure about Pedro. He looks like he's here unwillingly and has that sulky air about him. I could be wront but I expect he'll move on as soon as we can get a decent offer for him.
     
  31. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    BW's people to blame - Giraldi, Gino, Ivic
    COG's people to blame - Deeney
     
  32. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    'Chalobad', surely? Works far smoother.
     
  33. Carpster

    Carpster Reservist

    Hughes? You've come to that assumption after how many footballing minutes?
     
  34. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    79 games for us, not sure on the actual number of minutes.
     
  35. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Has this sour-faced **** quit yet?
     

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