Ivic In

Another point gained, against what looked like a strong team in this division. Unfortunate with the disallowed goal.

 

Another 2 points lost - against 10 men, with an insipid manager who nullifies any natural attacking impetus the players have and refuses steadfastly to be pro-active or go for the jugular.

 

The Ivic Out thread is the one you're after.

 

He’s a Serbian Mourinho. Its all about percentage football with him.

It’s all soul-less. We have no identity, we’ve tried 352, 343, 442, 443... and I’m still no nearer understanding what Ivic football is.

He seems to have settled into the place every other manager settled, whatever Deeney wants Deeney gets. And then stick some players around him.

He’s not developing youth - Quinna, JP haven't progressed at all that I can see.

It’s going to be another wasted year.

 

Whilst in an ideal world the football could be more exciting, and in same cases formations and player picks may not be the same of what us armchair supporters would like, unless the results take a nosedive and we slip down the table alarmingly or he has a major disagreement with the owners (or players), he won't be sacked for it.

And he shouldn't be either. We can't sack managers because of their style of play and who they pick to play if promotion is still a possibility. That makes no sense. He's got the job to promote us, no doubt he has regular performance review meetings with his bosses to discuss progress. So it's a bit of a pointless exercise really to talk about about who should replace him, coz apart from them 2 scenarios I mentioned above, it is very unlikely to happen.

And all this talk about its going to be a wasted year and we wont get promotion - how do you know? There are still lots of points to play for and we are currently in the play off spots. I haven't said we are definitely going to be promoted - I said I hopefully expect us to be top 6 at the end of the season to give us a chance to be promoted. I am not some over optimistic person either as I thought this time last year we would go down after both Gracia and QSF had been sacked, that isn't something a HC and other similar name calling I have been receiving would say.

 

Ivic has done okay in terms of stabilising a relegated team and making us hard to beat. That was by no means a given. A noisy minority of our fans seems to think we have a divine right to win every Championship match 5-0. I suggest they go back to supporting Liverpool or Man Utd or whoever else they supported pre 2015.

However, Ivic is running out of time to learn that having stabilised us we need to now kick on and attack. The second half against Brentford showed signs he may be learning. To be fair he chucked on every attacking player he had available, and it should have resulted in a good win, but for inept officiating and profligate play.

I am one of the most patient fans, but I need to see something soon that he can change it.

 

So why have we done it before? Or sacked managers for surviving in the PL? You're holding the owner to a set of standards he doesn't have.

Should he remain and it become apparent come February/March that we are then off the pace and left it late to make the change, what will you say then? Genuinely interested. Can he only be sacked when we can't go up? Should the club not act if they can foresee that situation and just wait for it to happen?

 

Disingenuous to say that because it's blatantly not true. Thats a line that's peddled out time and again with nothing to back it up.

 

From memory I think that was at the end of the season with the managers you are referring to. I don't recall a manager of ours being sacked by the Pozzos after being so high up in a league table with the main goal still a possibility.

 

Beppe Sannino. But I'm sure you'll find some excuse as to why that doesn't count either.

 

That was one of the 2 reasons I gave in my original post.....

"unless the results take a nosedive and we slip down the table alarmingly or he has a major disagreement with the owners (or players), he won't be sacked for it."

 

1/ Beppe was mad
2/ It was about 4 or 5 games into a season so yes of course prom was still a possibility and
3/ He'd been very unsuccessful the season before. He should have gone in the summer.

 

And what about the other questions I asked?

 

Genuinely think Ivic's plan is to try to limp to the transfer window still being in touch and then bring in the couple of players we need. The midfield combinations we've put out all season are desperately underpowered. There is no Abdiesque creator, nor Guedioura-style high energy box to box player.

If he gets the players he wants, I suspect we might get more of an idea of how he'd rather we play. If he's not backed (and I have no confidence he will be), it'll be a grim slog to end of the season, trying to stay in touch with the better sides.

 

Regarding...

"Should he remain and it become apparent come February/March that we are then off the pace and left it late to make the change, what will you say then? Genuinely interested. Can he only be sacked when we can't go up? Should the club not act if they can foresee that situation and just wait for it to happen?"

Personally, I don't believe he should be in charge come February/March if we are too far off the pace. As my own expectations was hoping for a top 6 finish. And my understanding is that the owners are targeting promotion.

With the other questions its not a straightforward answer. You have 2 sides. One side will lean towards saying a manager should be given the chance to do what he has been asked to do as long as the team are in with a shout, or the other side who aren't happy with his management and want him out before, in their view, it is too late. I am aware you, and others, share the latter view. But the reality is that no one really knows how it will play out as it is a bit too early to know, and I can't take the view that a manager coming in and sitting 3rd in the Championship table of the afternoon of Wednesday 16th December 2020 should be sacked.

 

Why is it a bit too early? It’s close to halfway through the season. Do you honestly expect it to suddenly change?

 

Good post. I'd say I am generally patient too, but I will never pay £10 to watch us play terribly, so perhaps that explains my current level of zen.

Thinking through Ivic's decisions however, I disagreed with many of them (before we had the benefit of hindsight):

Started the season with a back 5 against poor sides
Ivic didn't think that Kiko was good enough to play at LB in this division
Thinks we should completely retreat after going ahead
Seems to rate Gray
Often makes his final two subs in the last 10 minutes
Doesn't think Perica is out best forward player
Always starts one half sluggishly. This might not be a decision, but it certainly reflects badly on his pre-kick off preparation/ motivation.

In the pro column (as you say) he has attempted to correct many of these blunders (though I'd argue he has done so too slowly).

He also seems to scrape points when we are playing badly, has coped with injury crises and is still in the mix despite inheriting a mentally weak set of players. If he can get Hughes and Masina fit and plays Perica more and buys a Guedioura equivalent in January, then we still have a good chance of promotion.

 

Its a bit too early because of where we are in the league. As I've said, I can't take the view that a manager coming in and sitting 3rd in the Championship table of the afternoon of Wednesday 16th December 2020 should be sacked.

 

A decent summary. I don't want to bring up the 'i' word, because I don't think we're suddenly going to look like 1970 Brazil with everyone fit, but surely Hughes and Masina will make some difference. Also, we do make quite a lot of changes game on game...while this might reduce the chances of us developing any fluency, maybe come the end of the season when certain teams are blowing out of their arses, we'll keep hanging in there?

 

A lot of the criticisms people have of Ivic seem to be things he's addressing/addressed, or things which could well be the case whoever is in charge--is there any guarantee that the players actually start listening and take on board what anyone else says?

 

Is there ever, with any team or manager?

I think to say that he has either addressed or is addressing most of the criticisms is incredibly generous, at best. The most major criticism is that we set up both extremely negatively and without any clear, coherent gameplan, and that has been more on display than ever in the past few weeks.

 

Masina would make a difference. A negative one.

 

Fear of a name only increases fear of the thing itself.

Call him Ivic *shudders*

 

There's no way we are making quality signings in Jan. If anything we'll sell.

 

I agree but he won't be the first coach to have been hoodwinked by Pozzo into thinking he'll have the glaring deficiencies in his squad rectified.

Have to hope for some kind of Ben Watson, unheralded free transfer or Guedioura loan. We certainly won't be buying anyone.

 

It would be to Ivic's minor credit if the disgusting football of this season was all his dirty protest at the squad shortcomings he's been handed.

 

Sami Khedira, that guy from China called Anderson something, the defender from China who's name I forget as well and Alcacer.

Hand us the trophy now.

 

There was a Brazilian attacking midfielder around the time we signed Alcacer.

And we will recall Cucho, Suarez and Umaru Bangura.

 

I just realised that it was Andersen i was thinking of and that GD already named him.

 

Worth noting, the article about us signing Pape Gueye is STILL on the clubs official website.

 

He's been kept out of the main group because he has still some small problems.

 

If we aren't playing free flowing, attacking football and winning every single game 5-0 then he has to go.

 

Having listened to the press conference today I'm going to buck the trend on here and go full on Ivic In. He wants to play attacking football but we have crap players in midfield. The more I've watched Chalobah, Cleverley, Garner and Quina stink the place out week in, week out the more I've come to realise that no coach could do anything much more with this team. Play two upfront and we can only play two of those and they'll get overpowered in midfield or we have to switch to the 3-5-2 that didn't really work either.

He clearly stated today wants another left sided player and a central midfielder who can create something and surely anyone that's been watching our dirge this season can't disagree with that?

We are where we are because Ivic has got a crap team overperforming, not because he's holding them back. The midfield options and striker options available to him all season have been dire. And let's be honest, Sema is an honest pro but he's nothing special even in the Championship. The one attacker with real star quality can't find any form at all.

Ivic in - get him two decent players in the window on a free or loan and we'll play better and go up. Get rid of him and keep the same squad and we'll do worse.

 

Nah. I'm not buying it.

Sure, Brentford would have decimated us if we let them and even with 5 in midfield we were powderpuff, but what about rotherham, where they meekly surrendered but we let them come at us and Brum where we turned and went backward any time we went near their box?

Yes our squad is shyte, but so is this league and we could be playing better football and still be competing for a playoff spot.