1. Sannino resigned and wanted to go home. 2. McKinlay was just a caretaker. 3. Agreed on the not picking Vydra and Munari. 4. Not enough running with tractor tyres in preseason, of which Jokanovic needs a whole one of before we should judge.
Pains me to admit you're right about this manager. He had two positions in the second half; stand still with hands in pockets saying ****all to players and stand still with arms crossed saying ****all to players
So this season, for the first few games of the year before injuries and when players were fresh from their three month layoff, Sannino had sorted our fitness issues. Then he gets fired, the season progresses as three games a week are played, amongst internationals, and the players suddenly seem exhausted. Solution: the players were ridiculously fit under Sannino and the new managers have systematically destroyed all of the excellent work he put in place. Sounds fair.
So, in conclusion, the Pozzo's who run three teams including one that does very well in Serie A are clueless over fitness which led to a manager resigning and they are happy with a clearly (although I've never noticed it on the pitch this season) unfit squad? Sounds legit.
Is Jokanovic actually in charge of the training sessions. I have heard the sports scientist has far too much influence both on the training ground plus deciding when players are fit enough to return.
Sat in the East Stand to give it a try, basically a few rows up right behind dug outs, I also noted the complete difference between Derby and us regarding touchline instructions/involvement. The Derby coach, was constantly shouting out instructions on the touchline and McClaren kept coming down past us from his perch in the East Stand and giving it a right mouthful to players if they were not doing their jobs properly, the Derby players were always responding and alert to these instructions. Now SJ only reactions during his time on the touchline were to have a slight go at Fessi well just a shrug of his shoulders over the first goal, and a chat with Troy during a injury break in the 2nd half. A complete contrast in styles, it was just so noticeable, and I just wonder what he is like on the training ground. Team selection is also a worry for me, in the pub before the Birmingham game complete disbelief amongst all when it was published, the same for Saturdays game. I really want him to do well and will continue to support him, and I am hopeful he is learning and will get it right, but he has to learn very quickly.
Having slept on it, my considered verdict is that he is ****ing clueless. Not sure how a spell in the Spanish Third Division and a year managing the mighty champions of Thailand equips you for the Championship - acknowledged generally as the toughest league in the world. But even with that lack of useful experience, anyone with half a brain would have picked our best players to face the league leaders. And that's the most damning part.
Point 3 I agree with The worst thing about losing a game is I know at some point your rubbish will appear somewhere
Do either of the other Pozzo teams regularly play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday though? I've noticed poor fitness several times since the Pozzos took over. This season hasn't been to bad though.
Apart from the embarrassing performance the squad put in against Huddersfield on the last game, they certainly showed heart that day. The inability of the team to win a game from home. The rotten culture he removed from the side to such a degree that one squad member chose to hurl abuse at him on the pitch after scoring. I swear some people just oppose every manager that comes along so that when they inevitably leave (no-one stays forever) they can look like some sort of oracle.
We are not strong enough to rotate our top players. Infact this is probably true of just about every team in the country - even Chelski don't rotate the likes of Hazard, F*bregas & Costa. IMO its something GZ never learned & it probably cost us promotion. I can only hope the penny drops with Jokka PDQ
Him not talking to the players is a red herring. Don't get suckered in by it. When we played Millwall Holloway was constantly talking to the players and adjusting things, and I mean constantly. Joka watched. Don't remember seeing these stupid threads after that game. Joka is a class manager, give him time.
An excellent thread, and it's good we can all have this discussion. As I've posted elsewhere, I believe the Pozzos to be excellent owners on the financial side and we are lucky to have them. But the impression so far this season is they've made a right hash of the footballing side. While the current top 6 are all teams reeping the benefits of stability, we're constantly in flux and change. Where I disagree with Meldrew is about Sannino obviously as I was never a huge fan and believe he should have gone at the end of last season. Don't forget the mess we were come the final match. BUT having dithered and decided to keep him, it was then madness to allow him to leave after a rather successful first 5 matches of the season. I believe Garcia would have done a decent job had bad health not struck. But since then, we've been in danger of becoming a farce. I also believe the now departed Nani must come under some scrutiny too for his summer dealings. How many of our new recruits have shone consistently so far this season? Consistently being the key word.
It all comes down to the fact that we built a squad for 352 with wing backs and we now play different formations and we don't have fullbacks. Anything else is a side issue imo.
What's the point? Really, tell me what's the point of explaining my position with the new manager when the mob can't see anything but hatred for the bloke. When I read some of the utter drivel you spout and new threads you create, I honestly wonder if you can have a debate with such a closed mind? Here's a radical thought, how about we did our homework on Derby and decided to play the game as an away match and hit them hard on the break? Bringing on a fresh Vydra and Munari early in the 2nd half turned the game yesterday, (god forbid the manager may have actually planned it that way), and we could easily have won that. We weren't battered by them at all, it was a very close game between 2 very good teams. During the 2nd half Derby were rocking and McLaren was worried, hence his appearance on the touchline. Derby may go up but they weren't that far ahead of us yesterday, if at all. Joka got it right, we could have beaten the best team in the league yesterday with his tactics but for 2 wonder goals, but don't let that stop you hating. Joka is going to do well, (if the boo boys give him time), and I invite you to bookmark this thread for proof.
I'll agree with this. I wonder how much animated panicking amongst the coach is really helpful to the performance and how much is frustration being expressed in minor fits and shouting by coaches who haven't got their message across on the training pitch and the pre-match briefing. How much impact can a coach have by shouting at the team? "Fessi, ****ing score you little ****!" "Joel, close him down you idle ****!" "Dyer, ****ing try you neckless ****!" I'm more concerned about the team selection and tactics, and the proof of the pudding, in the results, which are so far below ordinary.
Three of your points I don't feel are worthy of discussion (they're just venting) but: The Pozzos are "very hands on". I believe the main reason that Beppe left was the management's arguement of "...it's our train set and this is how you'll play with it...". But, the Pozzos are an experienced football management outfit. Part of being an effective football manager is getting results, but another part is the wheeling and dealing of players (which I think is the main reason for them buying us - it gives them an effective marketing/advertising tool when it comes to selling players on). Perhaps the reason why so much "talent" was on the bench yesterday as it's very difficult to sell "damaged goods".
Agreed. I don't think Gino will get rid of anyone again this season so Jokanovic needs support. Besides, I think he'll do well once the club get him a few good players in problem positions.
I do not have the vitriol towards the manager as others who have posted on this thread, but we should not be losing three games on a spin in this league, with the players we have. Like all new managers he needs to be given time. Having said that, I've not seen too many improvements in our performances. Although, coincidently, our performances were good up until Abdi went off against Forest. Since that time, we were overrun at Middlesbrough, although rode our luck and gained a very good point. Millwall were in total control against us and the result we gained was against the run of play. It was one of those games, were performance did not match the result. Since then we've had our 3 defeats and I couldn't really say we've deserved too many points from those games. Of course it's a nonsense to only be able to get a good performance when one "key" man is on the pitch, but so far Jokanovic has failed to get a good consistent performance from the team without him. He's not helped his cause by deliberately dropping good players. Derby could not believe their luck when they saw Vydra and Munari on the bench I bet. I do not get the logic of dropping the better players against so called weaker teams. You have to play your best possible team against every opponent. If you get injuries along the way, so be it. Maybe there is too much reliance on the sports science data. I know the Pozzo's rely heavily on this and maybe that is influencing the manager's decision on when to play certain players. It's possible he doesn't want to be responsible for pushing a player too hard, only for him to break down, when the fitness data was pointing to a likelihood of injury. For me there are no excuses for failure this season. Top 6 is a bare minimum. You see teams like Brentford and Bournemouth right up there and it really brings it home how much we are under performing. I have to say, only a poor manager would fail with the squad we have this season.
I admire your positivity and can agree to some extent, that in the first half, if we could have weathered the storm, I felt that we would frustrate Derby and that we would eventually find openings. I think that despite the fact that Derby clearly dominated play in the first 45, they did struggle to create many clear openings. However, as soon as they scored before half time, it meant that the gamble of sitting back and playing on the break had failed and it was a gamble, especially with our defence, which we all know is prone to costly lapses in concentration nearly every match. In isolation, you could take your view seriously that this was a positive performance against the league's top side, but it's not in isolation. It's the third straight loss and it's part of a less than indifferent run of results since Joka started. We can all debate performances, selections and tactics, but the results are black and white and they are not good enough at the moment. Joka needs to turn that around and quick, or there's not really anything to debate.
I think it is a simplistic to question whether Sannino should not have been sacked although strictly he resigned. Sannino had lost the dressing room and there was clearly discontent within the squad as evidenced by the Dyer and McGugan situations. Consequently the Pozzos had to deal with the situation which appeared to be deteriorating by either trying to get rid of a number of players or the manager. The former option regrettably was not really viable in terms of practicality and particularly financially. The major mistake made by the Pozzos was the first one of sacking Dyche. We now have a squad of players which is too large, many of whom have big egos who throw their toys out of the pram when they are left out. It is impossible to have any continuity with an ever changing team. I cannot see how any manager can keep quality players happy when they are not playing. Whilst I accept it is a totally different level of football, Wycombe are top of their league having less than 20 professionals and no youth team to fall back on. The last few games they have only been able to field 4 or 5 on the bench and one of those is a 48 year goalkeeping coach! What they do have though is a young ENGLISH manager who has created a superb level of team unity and spirit as every player is involved every week. The squad is too large and as a by product youngsters have no chance of ever getting in the team.
Great managerial decision then since we could easily have been 3 or 4 down before he decided to play 2 key players. FFS give me strength.
I don't think it's a matter of "if" Sannino should have gone, but rather "when." Everyone knew by the end of last season he was a dead man walking. Why he was allowed to take us through the summer and start the season is looking to me like the fundamental screw up. It was the start of all the upheaval which has blighted our season.
Gino Pozzo has nothing to explain to fans. He runs the club and he's doing a brilliant job. The mind boggles that after 3 years, the turmoil we were in has conveniently been forgotten. Now we have the audacity to demand an explanation as to why not everything is 100% perfect. Any football owner who can make a profit from football while improving the club's fortunes, is a genius.........and this is our owner. No matter what.....we ARE a team that expects to be challenging for the title. This is the improvement that been made. Gone are the days when we are the bookies favourites for relegation. So, let's just take stock and accept, not every decision is going to come off. What is clear is if it's not working then it gets changed pretty quickly. We have a new stand and there were 15,417 home supporters watching our last game. Things are on the up. I have every confidence in Gino Pozzo and that the methods of the Pozzo family will bring success to the club. I think fans should show a little more gratitude.
You don't have to, but for me, I don't think the Pozzos are living up to their potential. They have the resources to make us a yo-yo club at worst, but due to several factors are not delivering it. OK, they don't have to make us successful, because it's their club, however, I think it's valid for fans to wonder why they seem to be making choices which undermine many of the positives they bring to the club.
Disagree HB1. I think there's a big difference between running the off-field side of things very well (which they have) and making a total hash of the footballing side. (which I also believe they have, to an extent). The two don't need to be mutually exclusive. To criticise the way they've handled the likes of Sannino, McKinlay and now the recruiting of Jokanovic doesn't mean we're not hugely grateful they saved our club from Bassini.
In other words, you can't explain why he's class, it's just a feeling you have. Which is fine, but in no way did our manager get it 'right' yesterday when we basically played for 45 minutes and even then not that well.
I think they are living up to their potential. Off the field they are delivering and I'm extremely happy how this is going. On the field they've provided the best squad we've had since the mid-eighties, so it's another big tick in the box. The head coach situation is a bizarre one I agree......but the only thing I could find to criticise them for is the hiring and firing of McKinlay. The departure of every other manager was out of their control. The only thing fans have got to control is expectation. It's the biggest problem here. We all expect so much and when it looks like it's not going to happen there is always a massive negative reaction. The very fact we have such a high expectations in the first place, is testament to the owner.
I understand the point you are making, but you have to take everything in its entirety when you are posting on a thread that directly attacks/questions the owner.
You don't need strength, you need a tissue to cry into mate. Let's lay some cards on the table then, where do you think we'll finish this season? I say top 6 easily, probably top 2.
