Which no one has said they won’t give him. Despite the theory that some have, that just by saying it looks like a poor signing, you must by default want him to be exactly that.
How does that equate to not giving him a chance? I’ve been over this already. Happy to admit I was wrong if it turns out I am - and more than happy to give him the chance to do exactly that. But I have my expectations and that’s the opinion I have given. That doesn’t equate to not giving him a chance. We could sign Raith Rovers 3rd choice GK to be our new No.1 and it would be fair to look at the factors, and state before he’s kicked a ball, that it’s a poor move. I’ve looked at the stats of this guy, what we are rumoured to be paying and the likely motivations for signing this guy in particular - and I think on the face of it, it doesn’t look good.
That's fair enough. I literally know nothing about the guy so I think my definition of giving him a chance is basically waiting until I've seen him kick a ball for us.
I think he'll be decent for us. Before we were linked with him, the type of player I thought we needed was one of high energy, prepared to chase and close down. We need an athlete. Someone close to Etebo in terms of getting around the pitch. Obviously we're unlikely to find another Doucoure, but I feel this guy might be worth a punt. He might turn out to be crap, but it's another body added to the squad and we won't really know until we see him play. Personally, I don't think this position is as vital as the defence. With Etebo due back soon, the midfield will be helped with his reintegration as well. As long as we sort out the defence I'll be happy. Whether these new signings will be enough to stay up, I have my doubts, but I think we'll be a stronger and more competitive side because of it.
Sorting the defence isn’t enough imo. We’ve had rings run around us by team after team. No defence can hold out for ever if it’s so easy to get through the middle, nor will fitness alone make up for 90 minutes running after the ball.
Isn’t Sissoko the definition of a high-energy athletic player who gets around the pitch? I think we more need someone who is prepared to play exclusively in front of the back 4, win tackles and give the defence the added protection it needs - one who takes short balls from them and distributes it to the players in front of him competently at a PL level. Etebo can do some of this I think - but he’s not really a defensive midfielder either despite some fans labelling him as one. We have lots of midfielders with very very similar styles - and this guy seems another to me. This guy doesn’t seem to be what we really need and his stats back that up for the most part. When you couple that with the level he’s coming from….
Another scouts views: "Kayembe I watched alot last season. Champ quality. If I remember notes rightly has serious agility issues, powerful runner in straight lines but turns like a tanker when bypassed"
The bottom line is, we don't have a budget, or only very minimal finance. This drives everything. Financially, an owner like Gino Pozzo shouldn't really be anywhere near the Premier League, or rather, shouldn't be able to finance a sustainable Premier League team. Look at this season, West Ham, Newcastle and Southampton have all got new owners in the billionaire category. In Newcastle's case, multi-billions. This is what Watford have to compete with. I'd say it's near impossible to operate in the Premier League without serious financial backing these days, unless you are extremely smart and take a lot of calculated risks which pay off. Dennis is one that has paid dividends already, there are many that won't though, but that's the nature of the beast. We can only really sign players that other clubs don't really fancy or are not prepared to take a gamble on. This is Watford's world, so players like Kayembe are the guys we have to go for. He may fall short in areas of his game, but he probably has a quality that the recruitment team likes and thinks the team lacks overall. This is why he gets signed.
Is that true? We signed Sissoko - and as much as it’s failed, we signed Danny Rose who was recognised as a PL player with several International caps. Players are out there and we have shown we can attract them. I don’t think we are exclusively swimming around in a sea of players like Kayembe at all. It’s just easy to assume that’s the case.
I’m mocking those who were saying I wasn’t giving him a chance. At least that was the light-hearted intention. Again, think that was fairly obvious!
Of course there are better players out there, but when you narrow down the criteria you can reasonably assume we're not the pick of clubs for these players. We can't afford too much, so the transfer fee has to be around the £5m mark, probably. We don't pay amazing salaries, we are in a relegation scrap and from the outside look certain to go down. It's a tough market to find someone who will improve you, who is affordable and is up for a relegation scrap. If we were in August, with a brand new season ahead of us, then it's a different conversation, but right now, I can see the issues the club must face.
We are swimming in a pool where we can afford some experienced / established players on Prem money. Outside of that we are taking punts on players on lower wages and are unproven. We can’t afford Newcastle’s laundry bill, but fans expect to finish above them, otherwise it’s the owners fault. We are poor by PL standards.
I think it IS vital. We have had such little possession and are unable to protect our defence, because our midfield has been pretty much a one man show, with Sissoko looking like a grown up alongside two kids. Louza does offer some encouraging signs and Cleverley can play a role (though not for 30 plus full games a season IMO). Other than that, all we have are 'bodies' in the likes of Kucka, Tufan and Gosling. Kucka can be a squad player, but the others, I wouldn't even want them getting 10 minutes off the bench. We desperately need to strengthen in the middle from the top. Bringing in a player who can do Gosling's job of filling a slot in the squad just accentuates our squad problems of having loads of players, taking up slots and claiming wages, who are going to hurt us if we ever need them to play.
We have signed Kamara - who is clearly at least one level above Kayembe - for a similar fee. Given the state of finances in football right now I think £4-5m can get someone more established/highly rated in.
I agree, we do need strengthening, but to my mind defence is a much higher priority to sort out. We can't rely on any of them to go through a game without switching off or making a calamitous error of some kind. I think once we get Etebo back, things will improve. Louza is coming to terms with the Premier League now, so will have a far more influential second half of the season. I can make a case for our midfield to perform better as we progress throughout the season. But we do need another high energy player in there. I like Kucka, but he's not got the legs for 90 minutes. Gosling and Tufan are not the answer though and offer nothing. Cleverley is another who does well for us, but is more of a squad player than first team starter at Prem level, IMO.
If you're a professional footballer then I'd be happy to give you a chance, you could be the next Craig Cathcart for all I know.
Maybe, but the club seem to disagree. I don't think we should be condemning a player before seeing him in the side. If he's crap, then we can probably get by without him with what we have and if we go down he'll probably be more useful to us then. If he does sign, then it will be because the recruitment team has seen something in him they feel they can develop. He's 23, so is at a good age to develop.
Sounds like we pretty much agree on most of it. I agree that 3 defenders coming into the first 11 is a priority, but if we are gonna sign midfielders, I'd want them to improve some if what we have, rather than just being Fletcher/Gosling type filler. Not saying this guy is, by the way. I've never heard of him.
Red flags possibly, but only because I don't know how good he'd be in our setup. However, I'm willing to give him a chance and not to write him off instantly. If the club sign him, they must have their reasons for it. Of course we have signed a lot of duds in the past, but maybe he'll surprise everyone.
I definitely don’t intend to condemn him before he has played and signed (although I think as @Burnsy is pointing out one certainly can based on information available at the time of signing; that’s why I am excited for Kamara despite him never having played for us). I think the club’s mixed record with transfers lately mean they are not entitled to belief in the face of evidence that the player must be excellent otherwise we wouldn’t have signed them (see, for instance, Zeegelaar or Gosling or Fletcher). There are a lot of aspects of the transfer that I like (his age, his profile) but I was highlighting that if we’re buying in this sort of bracket, there are players out there who would be good options so the fee is an insufficient justification.
