Certain Relegation/Championship - 2020/2021

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Cthulhu, Aug 24, 2019.

  1. PotGuy

    PotGuy Forum Fetishist

    Nonsensical to say we should have attacked Sheffield United when we can't score goals.

    Our attack is absurdly wasteful, so no matter how many chances we create through attacking play we never score them, we then concede the first goal and then get done on the counter over and over. It has happened for months now.

    As long as we don't concede there is always a chance we can score on the counter, but once we concede the first goal it's almost always game over.
  2. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Yet again you ignore the 'elephant in the room' hb1. That elephant being - played seven, points two, goals conceded twenty. Whatever else we'd tried previously hadn't worked. We'd been the better team in some matches, dominated possession, been unlucky with VAR and missed 'gilt-edged' chances. But nothing had actually worked and the glaring statistic remained. So time for something completely different.

    That made the opponent and the venue irrelevant. It was simply our eighth match and the imperative was to 'fix the defence'. This was achieved by chucking another 50% of CB on. And it worked. Should do really. Three are more likely to get it right than two. Now we know we can play that way and succeed defensively. We have 95 mins of precedent to take to Spurs.

    Had we played this way against Brighton I would have agreed with you. But it wasn't in the optimism of a new season. It was 7,2,20. Rock bottom of the league.

    Wolves play five at the back. They rarely dominate possession. But their counter is superb. So, if we're going to play this way in the future, we need to develop our counter too. We certainly have players fast enough to do it.

    Confidence is an ephemeral commodity we're trying to bottle. So, would you say our confidence is higher or lower now than it was on Saturday morning?
    Rozerhorn, Knight GT and Cthulhu like this.
  3. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  4. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Park Life!
  5. Agreed, lower.
    It's a flawed logic to say that because we have conceded shedloads and barely scored that we should focus on not conceding rather than scoring at home to SU. Clearly the defence needed tightening. There is a logic to playing 3 CBs, and being less reliant on the WBs to defend, giving them a remit to push forward which they are better at doing. I get that. That would have been perfect for the away games at Wolves and for the coming Spurs game. But at home to SU ? Their bubble will burst and our terrible luck in front of goal will change. GD & Welbeck are class players, can and will finish, and Sarr clearly has some pace about him. Gray, well he misses a fair few but until recently had a decent goals per minute ratio. I would have preferred to see us go for it at home to SU and I believe we would have conceded but won. The fact that we drew 0-0 won't have helped confidence. It's not a great result when we need to win 10 games this season. Any confidence picked up by the defence from not conceding will be matched and nullified by the strikers losing more confidence due to being unable to score at home to SU, and the manager having so little confidence in the team that he brought in another CD and surrendered possession at home to a promoted team.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  6. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Well, you'll not be surprised to learn, I beg to differ. Mine's higher.
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Absolutely agree. We were 1 goal away from a total disaster......and that threat was there for the entire game. Sheffield United nearly scored in the final minute, but motm Kabasele threw his body at it and blocked the shot. But had that gone in, what would people have thought? Lost to a last minute goal.

    We'd have been kicking ourselves for being so timid and not trying to beat a team we HAD TO beat.

    There are not too many games like Sheffield United at home, that come along. A match where we're actually the favourite. We have to take full advantage of it.

    When the Sheffield team saw we had 5 across the back, it would have given them a massive lift. "Look boys....they're terrified of us".....it's an easy team talk. We are paying them the ultimate compliment. They knew they had a easy match ahead of them. All they wanted we 0-0 and we obliged.
    Jumbolina likes this.
  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    They have been playing 3-5-2 all season so we just matched up with them ?

    They play with centre halves as wing backs and the midfield drop back making sure they are solid in defence .

    Don't think our "wing backs" were effective though and we stopped theirs .

    It's true they lacked anyone up front and we didn't really use the width well to get crosses in .

    Ofcourse Gray cannot control a ball so it's hard for him to link up with Welbeck who did his best .

    Pereyra was the only midfielder really posing a threat and we ended up with 2 wingers up front against big strong defenders .
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Definitely lower among the fans, looking at the reaction at full time and the body language and people's talk as they left the ground.

    And I can't believe the players took much heart from the clean sheet. Some maybe.
  10. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Between the two international breaks we trebled our points total! ;)
  11. ITK platypus

    ITK platypus Reservist

    2014/15 was more enjoyable than any of the Prem seasons to me. I'm up for dipping back down to the second tier, re-signing Vydra, Forestieri, Abdi, Tozser, Angella etc and having a fun season and then enduring another 5 year slog in the Prem thereafter.
  12. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki First Year Pro

    Interesting article on the footballwhispers website about Watford.
    A good read.
    Watford Gav likes this.
  13. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    What, this one?
  14. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

  15. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    I think this bit is incorrect:
    "As for Cucho Hernández, Luis Suárez, Filip Stuparevi* and Adalberto Peñaranda, the likelihood of them suddenly being parked at Vicarage Road for a promotion push when they’ve hardly set foot in England – albeit due to work permit issues – is incredibly slim. Particularly if Troy Deeney and Andre Gray, proven Championship forwards, remain on the books."

    A season in the Championship could be beneficial for all of them - both to get them acclimatised to playing regularly in England and to hopefully build some confidence up for if we were to get promoted again. Also, if the club had some sense they would sell Deeney at the end of this season anyway - his contract expires in 2021 and he does not deserve a new one. Long-term, if the club is truly to progress we need to look passed him.

    Navarro - Wilmot - Cathcart - Masina/Estupinan
    Dele - Chalobah - Quina
    Choochoo - Suarez/Stuparevic - Penaranda/Success

    Could have the makings of a decent, exciting team.

    The article claims that: "But thinking Watford will brush aside all before them and breeze back to the Premier League with a swashbuckling young side comprised of homegrown youngsters and the best prospects from the farthest-flung corners of the globe is na*ve."

    Sure it may be a tad idealistic, but that's not to say it's impossible.

    The biggest question mark were we to get relegated would be the futures of Sarr. At this rate I can't see any other clubs taking Sarr of our hands again for close to what we paid for him, and I doubt the Pozzos would be eager to take a big hit on him straight away. Perhaps a season in the Championship might also not be dreadful for him to get adjusted to England, but he might also see it below him. Could he perhaps go on loan to Udinese until if/when we get promoted again?
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019
    SkylaRose likes this.
  16. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Sarr can just go to udinese though.
  17. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Depends if they're in Serie B by then I guess.
  18. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    We have to win at least a third of our remaining fixtures, if our players looked up for the fight we might have a chance but they dont.
  19. Aberdeen

    Aberdeen Academy Graduate

    Article in the Watty Obs points out that about half the clubs who have had a similar start as us after 8 games survive. Somehow though I don't feel the odds on us staying up are 50-50. Changing managers or a couple of players does not look like it will make the difference in attitude we need. I do not think grinding out 0-0 s draws against teams we could beat will save us.
    At some stage the manager has to take a different approach and use players who do not already think we are beaten when they walk onto the pitch.
  20. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    So... a completely new starting 11 then at Spurs and onwards? I hear great things about the U23s. Time to step up to the big time boys!
    Aberdeen likes this.
  21. LaClusazSki

    LaClusazSki First Year Pro

  22. HELGO

    HELGO Reservist

    Lose away to Spurs and home to Muff and it’s really all over for us.
  23. We are 4/6 to be relegated now. 2nd favourites. This is probably as low as we'll go if we beat Bournemouth on the weekend.

    I still firmly believe we'll finish above at least 3 other teams. Norwich have grinded to a halt. Brighton look awful. Newcastle equally bad. Sheffield United will drop I think with no strength in depth. Southampton are also looking pretty weak. We only need to outperform 3 of these.

    You may say "yeah but we only drew against 3 of those teams listed so how can you possibly see wins against better teams". Yes we did, with Gracia at the helm for 2 and our first clean sheet in 20 games v Sheffield in what was the start of the rebuild under QSF.

    I think 33 points will be enough to survive this year. I think we'll get at least 33 points.

    I'm sure there'll be enough of you coming back at me saying to justify it with facts. I obviously can't. It's just my strong opinion.

    I'll put my money where my mouth is and lay on a wedge on us staying up.

    Feel free to rinse me for this post in May if I'm wrong. I'll take it!
  24. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    The power of positive thinking. Let's keep positive for the team until things are mathematically confirmed.

    There is a long way to go and the recent performances have been much better, giving up hope.
    SkylaRose likes this.
  25. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    I'm with you. I also think we'll stay up.

    While we've put out some terrible performances this year, we've also been horrendously unlucky with VAR decisions etc. and a couple of back to back wins will still lift us out of the relegation zone.

    Confidence is clearly in the toilet, but I suspect as soon as we get a result we'll see a significant uptick in form (which makes the Spurs robbery at the weekend all the more galling).
    Davidmsawyer likes this.
  26. Yeah Sheffield United are as good as down....:)
  27. No strength in depth. Will see how the second half of the season goes.

    To be honest Arsenal have been atrocious. Even at 80 minutes they were passing it around the back 4 for a couple of minutes as if they were winning. No urgency at all. David Luiz made more backward passes than forwards.

    I can't account for a piss poor arsenal I'm afraid.
  28. Davidmsawyer

    Davidmsawyer Statto Statto Statto

    Good result for them today. many on here lambasted us for drawing with them.

    yet they have beaten arsenal (5th), palace (6th) and Everton (15th).
    Rozerhorn, domthehornet and SkylaRose like this.
  29. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    I really cannot see Brighton being drawn into it. Under Harry Potter Snr. They are playing well. Yes they lost at Villa but they work hard.

    Its goung to be a slog. IF we beat Muff, we have Chelsea A... nice.

    Lampard has the kids playing well and unless we defend as well as at Spuds its a loss. If we don't beat Muff and get tonked at Chelsea, we could be well adrift. Which is why three points is vital next weekend.
    Davidmsawyer likes this.
  30. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Mathematically confirmed? We're nine games into the season!
    Davidmsawyer likes this.
  31. YellowHornets

    YellowHornets Reservist

    The Chelsea game is at Vicarage Road so I feel if we get a win Vs. Bournemouth we might be able to sneak something out of the Chelsea game as we’ll be up for it.
    Davidmsawyer and SkylaRose like this.
  32. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    I think you may have misread what he wrote, perhaps?

    The suggestion was to keep positive UNTIL the maths is hopeless, not that it already is. :)
  33. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    So despite what some of our clueless lot on here say, that 0 0 with Sheff Utd wasn't as bad as it seems.

    A win on Saturday and we could be just 3 points off 12th.
    Knight GT likes this.
  34. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    I did not misread you, I was meaning to reinforce your point to all the doom mongers who have already written us off.
  35. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yep. Anyone who is questioning our performance after not winning for 13 league games sure is “clueless”.

    Incidentally we can’t be 3 points of 12th by winning Saturday.

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