Thanks very much. I don't have anyone on ignore here. Which is why I thought the ignore function worked like other sites I've used. A question for Technical Support if you are about - is there a way of removing notifications from forum members who have been put on ignore by users?
Hang on a sec. I’m no fan of Deeney’s ability. But I don’t see the point in laying into him every single time, especially when he’s contributed 3 goals in a nearly as many games recently, penalties or not. He also played a big part in the first goal midweek too. I don’t discount penalties as being worth less than open play goals - because they aren’t. Again, I don’t rate Deeney highly - but I think for all his obvious faults, he has shown himself to be the best of a bad bunch in recent games with Perica looking like he could take that mantle very soon thankfully. I think if Ivic had us playing more exciting, fast-paced stuff, then Deeney would stick out like a sore thumb - but for as long as the football is slow and ponderous and acquiring penalties is part of things (certainly has been so far) then Deeney is as good as anything we currently have in that role. If we had someone clearly and obviously better for Ivic’s system sat doing nothing then fair enough but I don’t think we do here and now. Perica COULD assume that role but I don’t think he’s there just yet. I won’t shy away from admitting I find it very odd when one particular forum contributor makes EVERYTHING relate back to him and criticises him even for the things he does well!
You make some good points. But, to take Ighalo as an example, in the length of time between the turning down of good money and actually selling him for less, we had the use of him. I know he 'went off' at some stage, but he was a part of the squad which kept us up. How much money was that worth? And, of course, accurately predicting the course of a players' careers and therefore their future value is fraught with difficulties and complications.
In reply to the recent exchange between Burnsy and a19tgg I think Ivic in his mind at this moment in time has the idea of having Deeney and Gray up front. He implied in his post match conference that he liked what he saw at the start of the game before Gray got injured. Its fair to say we are choosing from strikers 'less than prolific' so no striker is clear above the rest as it stands. If a striking pair is tried and works in future games then Ivic has a decision to make when Gray is back but right now that is how I see it.
Fair enough, I think scoring a penalty should be a given and it’s not like he won it himself though, in fact I can’t remember the last time Deeney won one of the penalties he scored. Deeney is very good at penalties I’ll give him that, he’s got better at them than when we were in the prem, when he missed a few important ones (spurs) he used to hit them slightly off centre and hope the keeper went the wrong way. Now he hits them so hard they simply can’t get to them regardless. That said we haven’t missed a penalty for ages, including winning a penalty shoot out, if Deeney wasn’t playing someone else would step up and most likely score, as with all the other recent penalties we’ve scored that he didn’t take. If we had a better option than Deeney to start regularly then we’d probably miss 2/3 more penalties over the season, but gain a whole lot more more over the course of 90 minutes twice a week because of it. But I digress, I broadly agree with what your saying. Direct criticism of Deeney is largely unfair and pointless, he is what he is and it’s squarely the owners fault for not replacing him 2/3 years ago, let alone now. Murray was obviously his replacement if he left which is downright laughable, maybe as you say Perica could be the answer and whether it was a penalty or not at least he won it for us yesterday.
Who is obsessed Moog? Seems like you to me, you are obsessed with talking down the team you claim to support
Yeh I think when you have a team of 'not too exciting' strikers like we have then every goal is going to help your case whichever route it takes.
Of course penalties count, but if Deeney didn’t take them someone else would. What I’d like to know from some of the stattos on here is when was the last time Deeney actually won one of the penalties he scored?
Perica, for all the little I've seen of him, seems like a reasonable player at this level. He moves around (which in this squad is a wonder in itself) and gets into good positions. But I strongly suspect he is not very good at actual finishing. Maybe that could change if he was given an extended run in the team. Maybe.
On Deeney .... like him or loathe him he has done an awful lot for our club and deserves the respect of all of us ..... he has done way more than Mooney, Smith, Helguson et al. Who are all fondly remembered and rightly lauded. Due to injury and age Deeney has had to adapt his game. He can’t run the channels anymore like he used too - but he has value at this level and will get 15 goals. What we need to do is play off him .... lol at the ball through to Perica yesterday and the ball through for Sarr the other day. One thing I have changed my mind in is that I do think he cares and he battles hard ..... would I have him with me in the trenches that are matches in the Championship, absolutely..... would I have him in the Premier League, no, his best days are behind him. But the guy deserves our respect every time he pulls a Watford shirt on .... he is rightfully a Watford legend
I want to say the FA Cup SF but perhaps there’s one or two since. That’s the one that’s off the top of my head.
You've both hit the nail on head.... GP admitted they made a lot of mistakes in recent years, and they will put it right. Which to most of us means either: GP offloads a load of players (partially done) and brings in some decent players to get us promoted at first attempt (half done), or the full rebuild will take at least 3 transfer windows so promotion this season is mostly wishful thinking. Right now we have the feel of the second option, so if fact GP thinks we already have the right players to go straight back up he needs to replace Ivic ASAP. We fans have zero idea which wat GP is thinking right now but January should give us a pointer...
Of course you can. Who else would you likes to take that yesterday. I thought Deeney was ok yesterday considering he was given very little to work with
I have just looked at the league table. As things stand we are one point off automatic promotion. 8 teams have scored more than us (but, in most cases, not many more) and one side has conceded fewer. What's the problem? While stadiums are empty let's bore our way to promotion. If you want to be entertained, I recommend you give TV Championship football a miss and watch something on Netflix instead. Queens Gambit is excellent and if you haven't caught Succession or Narcos yet you must edit: Actually, Succession is on Sky (I think)
In fairness VOR you do seem to be replying to him an awful lot. I find a lot of his posts annoying but he does have good things to say and sometimes they are even funny. If you don't like what he posts then don't read it
Perica, Sema and Quina all scored in a recent penalty shoot out. Are we seriously at the stage where we don’t even believe other players can score penalties?
Agreed. maybe for the finances thread when the accounts for June 2020 are out but based on the 4 years to June 19 (so pre Sarr/Lukbakio) all but c£68m of the premier league revenue was swallowed up on wages and "other expenses" (i will ignore the amortisation cost as non cash). So £17m pa on average is left to buy players without incurring debt (including deferred player transfer costs) I am pretty sure we were the only club in the lower half of PL to have £70m+ in external debt so when we spent a net £130m on players over that 4 years we borrowed to achieve it. That debt came from 23 Capital who are no longer lending so whilst there are lenders who will finance defined receipts (in amount and time) like contracted player sales and contracted TV money there is no one in mind who will provide debt against player values -as these vary considerably. IMHO Gino did well to get debt from 23 Capital to fund our player spend but if we go up who will do that this time unless the owners put in their own money. We need promotion to plug the gap in finances for the reasons you outline but I think the transition has to start in any event as we cannot borrow our way to spend to stay up like we did from 2015. How we do this will have to be another thread if the 2020 accounts show the precarious financial situation we both think we are in.
Not at all and Deeney shouldn't play based on his penalty ability alone but it's still a contribution to the game. In a game like yesterdays there is nobody else I would have wanted to take that.
I also am not sure we'll sign anyone... But £5m or £10m on a competent player or two, and someone untainted by the previous malaise, could make a huge difference. A loan is a good option.
Deeney actually set up the penalty with a very good through ball for Perica to run onto. One you'd expect our midfielders to do if they could control the ball or pass to the right man. Maybe that is where Hughes and an interested Capoue come in. And I presume Sarr would have loved a ball like that - again if he is actually bothered to turn up and perform which sometimes looks doubtful has to be said.
Sarr and Pedro have both scored penalties this season, Gray scored one in pre season and has as good a record as Troy, then as I mentioned Sema, Quina and Perica have also scored penalties this season as well. Between those 6 players if Troy wasn’t on the pitch you’d assume at least one would be and as they have shown, would be just as capable of scoring as Troy.
TBH most professional footballers should be able to take a penalty or at least get it on target. I'd fancy Foster to score too. Bit like we should be able to take a set play and get it past the first man so maybe better not give a penalty to Chalobah or Garner!
I'm only being critical of his relentless running down of the team he claims to and that we all support. In fact he is not just running our team down he is actively rooting for our opposition in a lot of his recent posts. Quite frankly I am surprised that more people are not criticising him for his active support for our opponents and his constant slagging off of WFC.
I think we already have the pointers by not spending a penny in the summer. Might get a loan or two in January but if deals are being done with fee’s involved, I suspect they will be outgoings of decent players. I don’t want to digress away from your post too much because I agree with it. Although I would highlight the point that I’m not entirely convinced any of our summer signings have made us any better. Jury’s out on Perica, Garner is given slack because he plays for United but he’s been no better than any other CM yet, Troost-Ekong seems at the same level as the other CB’s and Ngakia seems to have tailed off a bit too. Murray was a total waste of time and money. None of them have weakened us. But I don’t think they’ve made us stronger either really.
