A view from a so-called 'plastic daytripping supporter'

I didn't see any of that behaviour and I can only go on what I saw. Maybe I used the wrong phrase. I guess what I am trying to say is what do you expect when you get 35,000 at Wembley. Some people will be casual Watford supporters and some won't want to sing. Some will be more interested in other sports but will come along to show their support That's not a problem at all, it's their choice and as such you wouldn't expect a big noise like you would at a normal away game.

 

I agree with you here, though crowd backing doesn't make a win a certainty; we make a huge difference and we have all seen games where the crowd seem to have turned it. I don't think it's a coincidence we did better away for much of this season.

You don't have to be drunk, standing and leary to sing though. And conversely, it seems that being drunk, standing and leary didn't make people more likely to sing either.

I sang my voice out yesterday, and I know there are plenty more individuals who did too. Unfortunately got a bit abusive about people not singing on a few occasions, and I regret that. What we need to do is create a situation where people do want to sing, do know the words and feel a part of the 'gang'. Picking on 'day trippers' and 'plastics' is ridiculous, because thousands of regulars weren't singing yesterday, and if they had, I do think it would have made a difference, even if it was only to go down fighting.

 

I would just like to say, for the record, I did not see one Palace fan with a half and half scarf.

Thing is, that alone says it all. It was seemingly do or die for their fans, even their day trippers. We laughed that Palace were screwing their fans over with the membership thing, but what it did was weedle out the non-carers. They had to pay more if they wanted to go. And they did.

Ours? There for a lovely bank holiday Monday trip with the family to watch a jolly good game of football despite the awful prices. Our fans passed around fan IDs, bought 20 odd tickets together and bragged about bringing supporters of other teams to the game.

That's Watford FC. That's the supporter base. Back in the day we maybe had a huge group of amazing fans that all lived and died for the shirt, but we aren't very successful are we? It's not cool to support Watford. Our ground is ****, we used to be owned by a homosexual and live in the shadow of London's successful and rich clubs.

That moron that came on here about the Arsenal fan said it all. He 'might' become a Watford fan. But lets be honest, while the action is going on, he'll be checking the Arsenal score. When we weren't performing at Wembley, he was probably thinking 'this is ****, I'd rather be at the Emirates' and when he got home, probably logged on the Arsenal forums to find out their latest.

This is Watford FC. Both the hardcore singing group and the apathetic 'one game a season' lot both have to deal with it.

 

A standing/singing only section? What about the people who wanted to stand and make a noise yet took people with them who didn't? The guy two seats away from me offered to fight two different Watford fans and verbally abused another (female) over his right to stand and sing. His girlfriend however spent the entirety of the second half chatting to my seven year old lad and barely watched the game. Should they have sat in different parts of the stadium?

 

Probably difficult because your knowledge of the subject you are discussing is minimal at best.

 

I personally think that our harmonies were off pitch and that put the players off. If we're going to ever go to Wembley again then we must practice, practice, practice.

Some of the shriekers and screamers were completely ruining the balance and we need to get more tenors in. All I could hear were baritone and soprano parts from my seat.

:dismay:

 

Watford is not middle class, sorry to burst your bubble.

And why are the fans fighting each other? Palace did it yesterday, and we are doing it today.

 

The thing is there was no choice, they both had different expectations of the day. At least if you bought a ticket and it said "Over 18 - likely to stand" you know what you're in for and can have no complaints. When you buy something and its promoted to be of a certain ilk then you know what you're in for.

 

:notworthy:

 

Don't flatter yourself, we played better away from home because the home team attacked us more and we hit them on the break unlike at home when they park the bus

 

What's this with Watford being 'middle class'?

It might be more middle class than some places, but most people are working class. Don't kid yourself it's flippin Henley.

And what of it anyway? I'm a dead ringer for Brian Sewell and I love a knees up.

 

I saw 2 guys i've known most of my life who are armchair Man United fans and patronisingly said to me 'i really hope Watford do it today' like I should have been grateful or them being there. Meanwhile I know other Watford fans that were not able to get tickets. Prentice you would probably know them.

Re the half and half scarves when walking back to Wembley Central I saw as many Palace fans as Watford with them and plenty of face paint and wigs. We certainly don't have a monopoly on such specimens.

 

Who cares?

 

I knew walking up Wembley way that the fans were not up to it.

What shall we do about it ? Oh yeah, let's make an all singing section, and organise a section of the stadium for just that.

And get shot down in flames by fans like the original poster. Wicked. Can't wait. Where do I sign ?

 

This is more depressing than the result. We'll never be Borussia Dortmund, deal with it. The atmosphere this season has been average and very good vs Leicester and Leeds. And the atmosphere next season will be average and will be very good in a big/important game. That's how it works. Ain't gunna change so no point getting yourselves worked up about it. I'd like to forget about pretty much everything from yesterday and these threads aren't helping.

 

The original post is a brave one, and one that was likely to provoke a reaction - it has indeed succeeded in doing that.

However, the post actually seems to refer that those who wanted to stand and cheer their team, were 'lairy, drunk and yobbish' - I can assure you I wanted to stand and support my team as I do most weeks home and away but I most definitely was neither lairy, drunk or acting in a yobbish manner, yet I was being whinged at by quite a few in our block
(113) to sit down. Well, with ten rows of people standing in front of me, strangely I did not fancy sitting looking at some bloke's hairy arse - So I advised the complainants I was unlikely to concur with their requests, until I had a decent sight of the pitch.

As the poster stated - the behaviour should not impinge on other fans experience, well these 'moaners' were doing exactly that - impinging on my match day experience!

I think a tad more tolerance is called for, from all quarters.

Welcome to the forum by the way Maninblack

 

Thanks Jelboy.

I didn't mean to suggest that all those who wanted to stand & sing were drunk & lairy. Those around the block I was in were though!

 

Really surprised by the fighting among fans on here, clearly there are some fans who like to stand and chant and vocally support the team and others who prefer to sit and watch the game and don't want or feel comfortable to sing or aren't physically able to stand. At homes games this is not an issue as all the stands have their own reputations and people segregate themselves, likewise at away games when there is unreserved seating. Unfortunately, at some games where seating is reserved outside the Vic there is conflict between these two different "groups" of Watford fans as they are forced to sit together. It produces an unfortunate situation, nobody has the right to tell another fan how to support the team but someone cannot stand without stopping the fan behind them who wishes to sit enjoying the game as they desire to and if the fan who wants to stand cannot then they cannot enjoy the game as they want. There is no easy solution to the situation, it could be argued a football game is no place to go if you want to sit in silence, it could also be argued that the persistent standing favored by some is clearly against the rules at all modern stadiums and if standing is a condition of your enjoyment you shouldn't be going. The ideal solution is singing sections as has already been pointed out but this poses logistical issues. Debate would (in my opinion) be more constructive if aimed at finding a mutually beneficial solution rather than arguing over different methods of supporting the team.

A quick note on the anti "day tripper" sentiment, without these people we could not sell out out 35,000 seats at Wembley, of course they're not going to be as passionate but I'd rather they came and enjoyed themselves than there were thousands of empty seats (which people would complain about instead.) I was a "day tripper" to Cardiff in 2006 having only attended occasional home games beforehand and of course did not sing as much as the rest as I didn't know the songs, nor did I care about the result as much! That game got me hooked and now I have a season ticket and also attend the majority of away games, we should be encouraging "day trippers" along to enjoy themselves, not vilifying them.

We can learn from the atmosphere Palace created yesterday but should also accept that as a "family club" with a higher proportion of both younger and older fans only so much is possible and that should be remembered.

This is such an exciting time to be a Watford fan, we should be enjoying the ride (as hard as it can be on days like yesterday), not fighting among ourselves over issues which have existed as long as I can remember.

 

^^^

Er Moog, I was only joking. I know everyone is tightly wound up at the moment but it's just banter.

For the record I haven't and don't criticise people who don't stand up the whole game (not everyone can) but singing shouldn't be a problem for most. And if that can't be done for some reason then at least letting others do so would be much appreciated.

Anyway, it is what it is and let's hope things get better on the atmosphere front over the coming years through success, a new stand, singing/standing sections etc. etc.

 

Yes, you're right. Had it said this section will be occupied by drunk idiots who will offer to fight fellow supporters and swear at women then I guess we could have made an informed choice! The funniest thing was when my seven year old lad asked said shouty chap if he could swap seats with his girlfriend so my lad could talk to her!

 

The Palace fans were just as quiet until the pen. If you watch the replay, sky's commentators mention this.

If we ever want a new east stand we need these "plastic supporters". Please everyone be nice to them, they'll learn the tune to Ngonge My Lord in time.

 

Ironically enough the East stand is one of the major reasons the atmosphere at the vic is not as it could be.

Apart from noise escaping from one section of the ground it's closure has meant that much of the rug and thermos brigade are housed in the Rookery. Once the new stand is built they will return there leaving the Rookery clear to supporters who want to stand and sing.

Pozzo's build the fackin stand sooner rather than later.

 

Has anyone considered that ANY set of fans would seem quiet when up against Palace and the well organised sections? They are without doubt the loudest and best organised set of fans in all 4 divisions? Perhaps a bit of perspective is needed now the dust is settling?

And for the record, our ticker tape welcome was 10 times better than Palace's cr*ppy balloons.

 

The balloons just ruined the first 20 minutes of the game rather than improved the atmosphere, it has to be said.

 

Palace brought 1,000s more balloons than us. It's a disgrace, couldn't the club have organised it so that we all had 10 balloons with our ticket, plus a copy of yellow pages each to rip up? Bloody daytrippers etc etc :smile:

 

Perspective and Watford fans are not two things I would usually put in the same sentence.

I'd like to think it was merely the disappointment of losing such an important game that leads to whining 'you're not a proper supporter because..' but it's a feature of a lot of WFC fans.
It's a shame but there you go. People are different, get over it.

However, I do feel if we'd all sung in unison the song below then we'd have won.

[yt]FcUi6UEQh00[/yt]

 

At away games I tend to sit on the fringes of the real noisy fans - ready to 'pick and choose' when I sing and shout, and usually end up pretty hoarse by the end of the game. I get sucked in by the atmosphere, without tending to initiate it.

But at Wembley, there wasn't that choice with the tickets, and 'singers' were dotted about rather than concentrated. For me that was the main reason for the poor atmosphere. This is a criticism we often hear about Wembley events.

We shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves in this way, but we should be looking to ensure this doesn't happen again. I've said it before, the Club can help if they put their minds to it and I think a bit of pressure from us might help.

Finally, I know it takes all sorts, but I have a heavy(ish) drinking history but I have never understood the need for football fans to get blathered to enjoy a game, or the build up to a game. Our little group was surrounded by a group of drunken idiots (who actually thought they were perfect Watford dedicated, singy, shouty type of fans) who went a long way towards ruining the game for us. Constant swearing, rudeness, slagging off our players for no reason and keen to start a confrontation with anyone that questioned their behavior and insulting us for not joining in with their 'singing'. Pushing past people 10 minutes into the game, spilling drink and booze over everybody. Having to go for a leak every 10 minutes.

Only a win for Watford, would have made me feel that my trip was worthwhile. It was horrendous.

 

First post although I've been reading for a while. I find this 'plastic fan/daytripper' debate fascinating and clearly there's polarised opinions on here. Let me give you my perspective, I'm a northener and moved down to Herts in the late 90's and been here ever since. Although I followed football, I never really had a team because where I'm from, rugby league is where it's at (I'm a St. Helens RL fan) and its still my main sport. Anyway since moving down, I kind of adopted Watford as my team as no previous footballing loyalties, it was local (which i think is important) and I had some connections with the club through work. So over the past 15 years I've been going on and off to VR, probably averaging one or two games a season and Watford obviously being the result I looked out for.

Fast forward to last season and I've now got 2 kids who are growing up (7 and 5) and they start coming home from school full of the playground talk of "I support Chelsea now" or (even worse) "can I have a man utd kit?". So last year I started taking them to a few games at VR to try and get them into a local team - probably went to about half a dozen last year and been to around 10 this season. My daughter has really got into supporting the team this year, and in fact so have I. So much so that we've all got season tickets for next year, and had got them irrespective of the divisional status. Obviously we went to the play off games and the final as well.

So 'plastic' fan or not? Or does it really matter? I'm acutely aware of how important it is for some supporters to have a "history" - at saints RL, I have it, watching since 1984/5 season I've seen the highs the lows and have great knowledge of the players that have been and gone since then. Clearly I don't have this at Watford. The point is though, it's personal to the individual. I know that having been through some pretty lean times at saints, when success comes and when the unexpected victories occur, it means so much more and the celebrations for you and those that it means most to are that much more intense and special. Why should someone clapping and waving their flag at their only game of the season detract from this. They're having a good time in their own way, but only you can know exactly what it means deep down.

So I am a WFC fan. I'm raising the average attendance by 4 next year. I won't be standing up starting any songs (I don't at the rugby either) but if there's an atmosphere spreading I join in the song, clap, cheer etc....it's all part of the experience.

As an aside, just been reading the St. Helens RL forum (www.redvee.net if you're interested!) and it's frankly scary how the threads on here are being mirrored there e.g. How to get the singers together, how to spread the atmosphere, and how to cater for fans who want to stand in seated areas when others don't, and of course, opinions on the once a year "big game" only fans!

Anyway - just my take on things, and really looking forward to next season.

 

Would we be having this debate in all honesty if we'd have won?

 

Perhaps in future WFC should vet every ticket applicant with a singing test.

I was thinking it could be a bit like The Voice with terrace seats that swing around. The judges could be selected from The Yellow Order (obviously they would stand rather than sit in the swivel seats). Contestants would have to down 4 pints of Carlsberg and a Balti pie in 5 minutes and then rush on stage to deliver their best Watford related chant.

This is the only feasible way to overcome this problem and I expect the Pozzos to implement it forthwith.

 

Exactly. I thought this during the game. I think a few people on here are overplaying the palace support at wembley. The Palace support taken as awhole was no different or louder than ours. They got their singers organised behind the goal well ( and we can learn from that), but the rest of them seemed just as apathetic as our fans.

The train into waterloo was full of Palace fans, most of them 'daytrippers' with young kids in tow.

 

Nope.

 

Right, this is getting stupid. Everyone is entitled to watch the game as they please, as the original poster says, this also goes for people standing up and singing. Either way, I didn't mind, I was shattered from the day before, my voice was already leaving after a day of singing along to my favourite bands. However, those people that are trying to encourage others to sing deserve a pat on the back, we needed to support the team and we didn't. I've never really cared about the whole "unreserved seating" thing until now. Obviously Wembley is slight different but at Vicarage Road, it must be getting considered now. Saying that, I love my seat in The Rookery. The atmosphere at the Leeds and Leicester games was pretty decent, was it a coincidence that everyone was standing? Peterborough away, always a good day, standing. Leicester away (playoff) standing, our support was great. These "daytrippers/plastics" or however get labeled these days need to realise that the people who pour emotion into this club week in and week out only wanted the team to do well at Wembley, telling them to sit down and shut up wasn't right in my opinion. I don't even know why i'm even arguing this anymore. Sigh.

 

On minute you say that everyone is entitled to watch the game as they please, but then if someone is standing up in front of them (so they can't see the game), they shouldn't ask them to sit down. I think you need to get your thoughts together. Furthermore you seem to be assuming that anybody that doesn't want to stand up and sing all the time must be daytripper/plastic fan - such as me, who has probably averaged 20 games, home and away, a year for nearly 50 years. I can assure you ChrisG, I pour tonnes of "emotion into this club week in and week out". I probably lost my tonsils on the terraces of the Vicarage Road end back in the late 70's and early 80's and have supported the Club when we were near the bottom of the 4th Division, and I resent what you are saying.