Lol, yeah right. For one thing, this post above is clearly a pathetic attempt at a bait, and potentially a personal snipe. Considering HB1 has made over 32,000 posts since 2007, for him to claim that that he's somehow "never seen" wfcsinatra before and thinks he's some random"newbie" - when he's made 16,000 posts since 2009 - is surely a lie at best, if not an outright condescending taunt.
Any team that has Hamer as first choice and starts with Rajovic as the lone striker deserves the tag of a bottom 6 squad. I think the majority of the squad is crap. It’s really rancid, but the coach has got a tune out of them so this is why we’ve picked up points, as fitness has massively improved. But there have been worrying signs, even through our good run. People don’t want to hear it, when we’re winning. But I wasn’t convinced by us even then. We were getting away with it. Some extraordinary wins. Those 3 away games yielded 9 points, but the performances probably were more akin to 1 point if we’re honest. I will say we did deserve to beat Southampton and should have got a point against at Ipswich, but over all, I feel we’ve picked up more points than our performances merited during that good run. It may have fooled people into thinking we’re on the right tracks, but yesterday was as bad as any performance this season. A performance level that low shouldn’t be happening at this stage of the season. It was an easy fixture and not one that we should have been destroyed in. Bristol were a class above in every area. Stronger, quicker, faster, desire, will to win was far greater than ours. We’ll have to see if yesterday was a blip, but I have my doubts.
My views are forthright, but honest. I get some don’t like them because it goes against their beliefs that we are progressing as a club. I never take aim at anyone or start a fight. Never done it and never will. This is a misconception as if I’ve ever done this, it would only be in self-defence or in response to some d1ck having a pop in the first place. I never cast the first stone.
Of course you take aim at people as preceding posts have demonstrated. If you are justifying the digs you make as only being in self defence then that is very different to saying you never take aim at anyone.
No fixture in this division is "easy", and no team has any divine right to beat anyone else unless they do so on merit and work ethic. We struggled to break down a very poor Sheff Wed side and only beat an average Birmingham side due to two very late goals which is a feat we have repeated in other games to salvage a point or three from the jaws of defeat. What we have in the current squad is desire and togetherness. Something no Watford side has had since Gracia's initial season. You are correct, we are not a top six side and I do not think anyone here is denying that or suggesting we will storm into the playoffs. But I will hold my hands up and say I was perhaps getting a bit carried away with the upward motion the club were heading after a pretty poor start. A lot of credit has to go to VI for how he was created a working atmosphere within the squad, got rid of all (or most of) the bad eggs. I also think you are correct about the ability and depth of the squad, but we all know that is beyond VI's control and he has had to work with what he has been given. Despite the hot air Duxbury blows out of his mouth, we know we have no money, we know it's all tied into the stadium and into the debt Gino will no doubt call back when he buggers off. There is an equal chance that we could now lose to Stoke and Plymouth before the next break, just as much as we could beat both of them and by hook or crook end the game at Home Park in the playoff places. It's the nature of the division and having a limited squad that is working above what they are capable of deserves a lot of praise. Relegation, although highly unlikely is always possible until it's mathematically impossible. Getting to 50pts (which is generally the safety mark) is key right now. If we get to this point before March then we have two more months of fixtures to try and finish above midtable or wherever we are at that point. What worries me a little more however, is injuries. We know, and you have repeatedly stated as well, how thin our squad is. That's a good thing because we got rid of a lot of "dead wood" in the Summer but it has left us short. RB and a left-footed CB are clearly areas we need to address next month. We also need another holding midfielder and a box to box striker to perhaps partner Healy. All this costs money, which is something we do not have in spades to splash around. As long as the club continue to pull together and Gino doesn't make anymore schoolboy errors with our funds and status, we will one day achieve the status as a PL club again. But I would rather us take baby steps and make sure the club is stable and can operate than rush to the dream division, get slapped for 38 games because we are not ready and destroy any morale we have been building up.
If you call me a ****, I think I’m in my rights to call you a **** in reply. But the difference is, I’ll never call you a **** in the first instance……,and for the record, I’m not saying you’ve called anyone a ****. It’s just for illustration purposes.
I phrased it better earlier. Bristol was not a difficult fixture, rather than “easy”. But it was quicker to type.
To clarify I don't dislike some of your views because it goes against my views that we are a progressing club. Objectively we are not a progressing club and are clearly not at our premier league level. We are in a process of resetting and transition. However, we have made progress this season in terms of how we play as a committed team and I have appreciated this and been craving this for a number of seasons. As a supporter I want to get behind the team I'm seeing and the effort it is making. I think booking and being overly negative after 1 bad result is not constructive or realistic to our current aspirations.
Above average side has an off day against an improving side after losing 2 in 12 which were against the top 2. Another home game on Friday, a chance to see if we pick up and learn which we have done recently or if we’re getting relegated again.
I’m not saying we’ve not progressed in certain areas. Fitness is certainly better. There seems to be more of a togetherness, but that was a very low bar we’re comparing against. The squad is low on quality though, which is a backward step. Nowhere near the level it was last season. So we’ve seen some improvements, but I didn’t see too much effort yesterday from the team. They were outworked from start to finish by a mid-table opponent at home. It was totally unacceptable, but I think many people are footnoting it as “one of those things”. Maybe it is, but I was concerned at the level of performance. We looked utterly hopeless, and didn’t even compete. I cannot support a team like that. If they give it a go, then fair enough, and they’ve shown a good attitude in quite a few games this season, but if they don’t turn up and show they’d rather be tucking into their turkey and mince pies, then they can do one.
So because of 2 players who start and arguably shouldn’t even be first choice we are bottom 6 ?This is surely just utter nonsense. I agree Rajovic shouldn’t be starting , but both Bayo and ( from what I’ve seen ) Healey are both technically superior . We have a team of somewhat limited players along with a couple of young potential gems but this is the championship . It’s not the premier league.
It’s just to emphasise the fact VI thinks it’s this is the best team to win a match. These guys shouldn’t be anywhere near it, imo. I wouldn’t say everyone is crap, that would be wrong. There is value in players like Andrews and Asprilla, and I have affection for Ken, but the rest……I really wouldn’t care if they were all shipped out tomorrow. What surprises me is how so many fans have accepted the new reality and embrace the decline. I’m far more demanding, and will not accept the fast fall from grace quite so readily. The squad we had in 2019 should not have turned into the squad we have today. Only vast incompetences have caused it, and that guy is still at the helm calling the shots.
Of course the squad is low on quality compared to last season, that was always going to be the case. But nevertheless I'm enjoying this season a lot more. There was effort yesterday compared to last season. At 2-0 down there was effort but we lacked the quality or breaks. the 3rd goal knocked the stuffing out of us but even after that there was effort but we weren't good enough on the day. I'm sorry you can't support a team like our current one as i think support can really make a difference to performances and results. even though I didn't go to the Lancashire games I'm grateful for those who did and got behind the team when we were 1-0 down.
I’m saying I cannot support a meek surrender, such as yesterday. I’m surprised more fans aren’t calling it for what it was. Just because we’ve been on a good run, does not excuse yesterday’s performance. It was certainly the worst we’ve played at home and is probably alongside the depths of Sunderland, which has been used previously as the watershed moment of the season. If they give it a go, then I can appreciate the situation and give my support, but as I say, if they give the impression they’d rather be playing on their x-boxes then I cannot support it. Yesterday, Bristol City really looked a great team. Fully committed, closed everything down and just wanted it more. As fans, I believe we have a duty to ourselves to call it for what it is. Yesterday was totally unacceptable. No excuses. If you let players drop to those levels without letting them know about it, then fans are failing the club, imo.
Quality was always going to be lower than last season given the costs we had to cut as we adapt to being a regular champ side and pay down debt. Unavoidable.
Luton got promoted on a budget of £1m. We shouldn’t continually excuse the ownership’s incompetence. The debt is because of their failings. The watering down of the squad season after season is down to their failings. Where is line drawn before non-acceptance starts?
A whole load of people have made a good selection of pertinent observations about Watford's playing in this match. As far as I can see only one has mentioned Bristol's input. I think the game started with two different styles from the two teams, but was very evenly matched. It was promising to be an interesting competition, with a good level of football for this division. Then Watford shipped a careless goal and from that moment Bristol gained control of the game. I was impressed by Bristol: Their passing was quick, accurate and organized and their tactics stymied Watford increasingly throughout the rest of the game. Their pressing was organised, energetic and exposed Watford's defensive frailties. They dominated midfield, basically by appearing to be better individual players, who were better organised and who had done their homework on their opponents. They stopped the wingers and attacking wing-backs and drove them back towards our own goal and this stopped a lot of supply to our forward play. (Rajovic is a liability in such situations). Watford had several players who had below-par games and this was either because of Bristol's pressures (Kayembe retreating further and further back into defence for example) or because of individual errors (Hoedt for example). The cliche that goals change games was very realised in this match - Watford were chasing the game the moment the first one went in. There are always key moments in a game and Watford definitely got the worst of them: Softly conceding that third goal so soon after scoring ourselves was a good example. By the end I was relieved for the final whistle; Bristol fully deserved a hefty win and it could have been more.
Whoever everyone is arguing with is on my ignore list. I recommended others do the same to avoid getting drawn into pointless arguments with a frustrated middle aged man who explodes in rage every time we fail to win.
If it wasn't for the owners incompetence we wouldn't have been promoted and spent 6 years in the Premier League as a result! We have gone full circle back to where we where when they started, I hope you enjoyed the ride, I certainly did, there a lot of teams in the Football League that are very envious of our Stadium and history etc!
Perfectly surmised. I would go as far to say that Bristol are the best team I’ve seen this season. Key moments are always so important. We’ve been having it all our own way in recent games, but yesterday they all went against us in spades. The first goal was a really soft one. Hamer has got to be saving that. Then the OG right on half time is a dreadful time to concede. But once we get a foothold from Georgi’s goal we gift another goal through stupidity moments later, which kills all momentum. Once that happens it’s just a question of seeing out time. The game was done.
I am somewhat confused by your argument ( and I think you may be too !) In the same thread you’ve said we’re a bottom 6 side , but Val has done a good job for us to be where we are , but Val isn’t picking the right side as he’s playing Rajovic and Bayo ( which is why you think we are bottom 6) so he’s not doing a good job , you can’t accept yesterdays performance in an ‘easy ‘ match ( even though we are bottom six and by your logic Bristol city are therefore superior to us ). Now you’re taking about the ownerships incompetence and how we shouldn’t accept it. But I’m not sure what we should expect at this point . We were massively in debt. We are now cutting our clough accordingly and have had a reset . Should we carry on overspending instead and send ourselves into administration ? Im gonna shut up now cos I must admit I’m not sure what point you’re making any more so I can no longer argue either way.
Why not? We don’t have money because the owner has screwed us over. But limiting ambition would ensure we never got out of the 4th division all those years ago. No one thought we’d get promoted, let alone stay in the Premier League for so many years, Fans tend to accept where we are in the moment. I’ve never understood that. I’m always striving for better, and ad long as the flow is in the direction, then I’m good with it.
So it was an ‘easy’ fixture , but Bristol are the best team you’ve seen all season . Are you able to show any consistency even on the same day (or hour ?)
I’m not confused in the slightest. I think I’ve made my points very clear. Val is doing g a good job. He’s making the most of what he’s got, and to have managed 34 points from the rabble he has, is amazing. Picking Rajovic and Hamer is not a slight on the manager, it’s a slight on the ownership and recruitment team, giving him such a team to pick. The squad is bottom 6 without doubt in my mind. Without Val we would be bottom 6. He’s elevated us to a higher level than we should be. Yesterday’s performance would be the norm I suspect under a different coach. If your team is rancid, no matter how effective the coach is, the crap will rise to the surface every now and then. That is inevitable. The trick is to limit those performances and get the players playing above themselves more often than not. With regards the ownership, it’s their incompetence that has turned a healthy, viable Premier League squad into a debt ridden, bottom 6 squad (imo) in the space of 4 years…….and fans meekly say we gave to accept it. No we don’t.
In this league are there any easy games ?! Only if a team makes it like that . Everyone knows what the Championship is like. I hope the players didn’t think it was an easy game.. Maybe some were complacent ?
I’ve clarified the “easy” fixture earlier. I wrote it’s not a difficult game. Before the game would you consider it one of the harder games at home? I think I Bristol were the best team we played, because we allowed them to be. That is all on us. Had Bristol been running away with the league I would say I can see why. But they are not. That at was their first away win in 6. So we made them look good by our pathetic performance yesterday. I know you’re trying trip over yourself in making me look foolish. That’s your prerogative, but believe me, I need no outside help in that. But I’m extremely consistent in what I say, no matter how hard you try to discredit.
Agree to a degree, but it wasn’t healthy. We weren’t selling at optimum value and as a result the squad was what led to the debt ridden club we have been for a while now.
Yes, and that’s because the ownership is incompetent. We rode a wave under them for a while, but they’ve been very bad for the club for a number of years now.
