Covid-19 Virus

something wrong with her lips, does covid leave you looking like a fish then?

 

Still no answer, what a surprise.

Whitty wasn't necessarily lying, no. A lockdown may have been advised on Monday. Just like it was advised on 22nd December. It's just this time Johnson bothered to listen!

 

I've not seen anything to suggest that anybody advised a full lockdown on 22/12/20, so you will have to provide some proof, no?

And as for the rest of your post, "This completely goes against you saying that teenagers and teachers can't spread the virus. You also said there's only been 50 confirmed covid cases in UK schools, which is also rubbish."

I know you enjoy making things up, but I honestly don't know where on earth you plucked those quotes from, as they certainly weren't from me.

I know we obviously have opposing views WatfordTalk, but if you want to have adult discussions with me, maybe you could start by actually discussing what I have said, instead of continually discussing things I havn't said.

Thanks.

 

My wife is a teaching assist at a SEN school so I can help you with some facts of what it is like "on the ground" and not relate observations from outside.

All teachers have been told they must attend unless they are isolating or are in a vulnerable group. The school is currently open for key worker children but from next week will be open to all vulnerable children. All children that attend SEN schools are classed as vulnerable so they expect most children to be at school. The parents have a choice whether to send their child and they will not be marked absent if they do not attend. Personally with the official rate currently at 1 in every 100 people in Watford having Covid I would not send my child to school where the risk of infection is much greater. However every parent has a right to decide what they think is best.

The school has not been sent any testing kits as promised but in any event most children at a SEN school have difficulties about being touched and will not allow tests to be carried out on them. The teachers are not allowed to wear any PPE (except when dealing with toileting issues) as this is deemed scary to the children to see adults wearing masks. My wife is therefore mixing with adults and children (in her bubble) without protection. With the current rate so high I feel it is a matter of time before she contracts the virus and then passes it on to the rest of us in the house, school etc.

My wife went to work this morning and put the best smile on her face for the children but I can tell you as a fact she comes home at night and cries. In the current climate she cannot give up work and in any event is doing what she feels is right for the children. Most teachers in the school feel exactly the same.

I hope that this helps you with a true picture of what is actually happening

 

Sorry, was just following your lead from the other thread of just making stuff up.

 

Blimey, now I know why you are so secretive about your line of work, you are still at school and it was past your bedtime.

 

Still no answer! Shocker!

The personal attacks usually come when you've lost an argument, so that makes sense. I'm here for you if you need to let out any more anger though. Whether that means continuing to embarrass yourself publicly, or if you need to rant in my PMs, that's up to you.

 

How an we hold a decent adult discussion if you admit you are making stuff up and altering my posts when you quote them, like a child. I am doing my best, but you seem to just want to carry this stupidity on.

Anyway, I'll try again to get things back on track...

Now, I have lost where we are. What is this killer question you want me to answer, that I apparently keep avoiding? Ask me again.

 

Just following your lead fella!

2 days ago...

 

Thanks for your honest update Simmos and I appreciate that and it's difficult for you, your wife and family. It is not easy for anyone. I guess everywhere is different and I do not profess to know what goes on behind closed doors at our nursery, except to say any conversations, emails or communication we have had with them have been positive in nature (maybe they are just putting on a brave face as you say). When our daughter couldn't go to nursery back in March it caused my wife and I a great deal of stress juggling things with work and keeping her entertained. I am a bit luckier in that my work is more flexible than my wife. She works for a well known trade union and with Covid, furlough, redundancies etc.. in her role she is absolutely snowed under helping members with their numerous issues, so having the nursery open from a selfish point of view is great for us. I'm not sure you could call my wife a key worker, but I'm sure a lot of the union members at this time would consider her so!

Again appreciate this is not easy for the staff and we are very grateful to them working through this. If nurseries were to close again the strain would be put back onto our family like before which obviously we want to avoid, so I am with the government on keeping pre-schools open etc.. (but I am not with them on many things I might add!). This is probably selfishness on my part, but I'll admit that and I'm not afraid to do so. We are very lucky as well we both have jobs that have not been greatly impacted by what has happened the last year, apart from the fact my wife has triple the amount of her normal workload!

 

"Did the government think the data you mentioned would get worse, or better, once kids returned to school?"

Was that it?

Well I don't have any insider info, but I presume they thought the numbers would go up whether schools went back or not as there are there are around 250,000 tests and 50,000+ positive results every day.

I would have thought you could have answered that question yourself, tbh.

 

For anyone that's interested there's a new website for people to share their stories about the toll lockdown has taken on them and those they know. www.victimsoflockdown.com

 

What a non-answer that is.

"Unless it was a huge, monumental, unprecedented increase in that 24 hour period, the above data was surely already quite worrying on Sunday morning, no?"

Nothing, no? You have no opinion on that, or you're unable to justify it? What did they find out on Monday morning that they didn't know, or couldn't possibly foresee, on Sunday morning?

I think you're falling into the trap of thinking this is party-political. This isn't just bashing Tories for the sake of bashing Tories. Labour have blood on their hands too for their lack of opposition. But you don't have to do these mental gymnastics to try and defend every mistake they make.

SAGE advised December 22nd that keeping schools open would make it highly unlikely we'd be able to get the R rate below 1. We all saw the numbers over the past couple of weeks. You've presumed they thought numbers would go up. We know schools help the virus spread. And yet they still allowed schools to open for ONE DAY, letting 30 different households mix in each classroom across the country. And you are unable to admit this is sheer irresponsible incompetence that will contribute to deaths.

This attitude from people like yourself will allow this government to continue to get away with it.

 

It was also profoundly annoying to both parents and teachers, as many posting on this thread have already suggested.

I really do not see what Boris thought he would gain from it. If it was done for political reasons, it seems a bad misjudgement to me. As it is, he ended up looking like he was just copying Sturgeon.

 

Wow, that is a very honest opinion and I think that goes to your great credit to be so open about your situation. I totally understand that people have to work and do what is best for their families. I just wanted to let others know it is scary for the teachers especially in difficult settings of a SEN school where social distancing is virtually impossible due to the childrens abilities. I wasn't trying to call you or anyone out and apologies if it seemed that way. I just hope that the Government consider my wife a key worker (which has not been recognised yet) and that she will be moved up the list for the vaccine so that she and others can have peace of mind.

 

I'm not doing any mental gymnastics, I was merely answering the question you posed to me (that you edited out of my quoted post, for some reason).

And your 2nd last sentence puzzles me. Most primary schools apparently had an inset day, at least up here they did. London Primary Schools were closed and senior schools were mostly closed. You do know that the government had already decided on a phased return at best this term after Xmas, don't you?

 

From what you say I would suggest that teachers in SEN schools should be next on the list after healthcare workers.

 

The decision on PPE is a decision expressly left to the schools I believe, with no recomendation from the government either way. Surely, in light of what you are saying, along with all the other staff, a representation could be made to the school?

 

Would have thought it was pretty clear I was referring to the schools that did open but I'll try and make it clearer for you next time.

They decided on a phased return for what reason, do you think? Could it be because they're 'vectors of infection'? If so, why allow one day of mixing? They knew schools spread the virus on Sunday morning, and they knew the numbers were out of control on Sunday morning. But they still allowed schools to open Monday. Why?

Do you have anything to back up that most primary schools had an inset day?

 

I don't mind being called out at all, I just ask that people see that everyone has their own personal opinions and circumstances so it's important we all appreciate that. I certainly do with your situation. It's only human nature to want what is best for you and your family personally too and if I'm guilty of that and putting it before other things, then so be it, but it doesn't mean I do not understand how difficult it must be for these key workers. It must be very scary indeed at times for them all and I hope your wife is recognised as being a key worker sooner rather than later!

 

It's all getting a bit tedious in here folks. Let's discuss the issue rather than individual posters and their views.

Thanks.

 

Lockdowns certainly don't

 

I think the view on this poster is great:

 

You are asking questions that were discussed last year, the phased opening was partly due to the need to get the testing mechanism in place. Everybody knows that schools potentially increase infection, even if the latest ONS numbers and other research show it is only by very small amounts. Obviously, closing schools, just like forcing absolutely everybody to stay at home totally would reduce the infections - but a government cannot just take theat simplistic view, they have to balance and compromise as they look at the bigger picture.

Why on earth you keep going after me, as if my opinion is anything important, I don't know.

I get it, you on your keyboard think the government is totally to blame, and with your 20/20 hindsight, and your ability to see into the future, you (and Piers Morgan) are in a better position than most. Personally, a mere mortal, I try to look at the difficult decisions that governments have to make with a bit of empathy, without hindsight and with the understanding that future predictions can be wrong.

Let's leave it there.

 

So, Sunday safe. Monday, not safe. Got it.

Also any evidence that most primary schools had an inset Monday, or was that just you making stuff up again?

 

But couldn't the question be flipped around? Why would someone be completely against something, only to completely support it the next morning? Surely the only explanation is that new data arose? Medical and/or political.

I imagine that it takes X days to see if tier 4 restrictions had an impact on hospital numbers. They might also have received news on the transmitability of the new strain among children. I have no idea. But it does make sense that fundamentally something did change between Sunday and Monday, leading to a change in the views of both Starmer and Johnson.

The other point to be made is that the number of Covid cases cannot, and should not, be the sole focus of governments. The government makes a cost-reward call every day when determining whether we can drink, drive, take drugs, have medicines etc. The government cannot eliminate risk (no one is calling for lockdowns to avoid the flu, despite it costing tens of thousands of lives). People will die and the vast majority (although certainly not all) of people dying of Covid do not have many years left of life.

The call a government has to take is whether a generation of children's education, physical and mental health and future prosperity, is worth sacrificing. There will likely be a loss of life for the millions of children, which will probably in total be greater than the loss of life due to Covid. Lower economic prosperity reduces life, having fewer friends reduces life, as does diet and physical inaction etc.

But the justification for full lockdown, and schools being shut, becomes completely acceptable when hospitals become overwhelmed, patients who could have been saved die in corridors and ambulances and doctors have to make decisions on who lives and dies. You simply cannot allow that to happen.

Therefore I imagine that the new data relates to hospital projections, and that this was released on Monday morning when NHS analysts provide its latest figures to the government.

 

Could that not have been very clearly stated to the public then? The very fact that this debate has taken place suggests that it has not been.

On the other point, I don't think anyone denies that government has to strike a balance but it seems perplexing that when schools were off anyway it wouldn't have been simpler and less disruptive simply to keep them closed rather than closing them 24 hours later. It might have been different had schools been back for several days already.

 

FFS, just shut up.

 

Meow!

I'll chalk that up as another zz mistruth then, eh?

 

Why did Johnson say he was shaking hands with covid patients? Why did he allow huge gatherings at sporting events to carry on for so long? Why did it take so long to set up track and trace? Why wasn't Cummings sacked? Why no checks on airport arrivals? Why so slow on masks? Why did they try to use a biased algorithm for test results?

The answer, as it usually is, is incompetence, pig-headedness, or both.

 

Boris did say this on Monday night, it is pretty clear, I think. I more detail was provided the following day.

Our scientists have confirmed this new variant is between 50 and 70 per cent more transmissible – that means you are much, much more likely to catch the virus and to pass it on.

As I speak to you tonight, our hospitals are under more pressure from Covid than at any time since the start of the pandemic.

In England alone, the number of Covid patients in hospitals has increased by nearly a third in the last week, to almost 27,000.

That number is 40 per cent higher than the first peak in April.

On 29 December, more than 80,000 people tested positive for Covid across the UK – a new record.

The number of deaths is up by 20 per cent over the last week and will sadly rise further. My thoughts are with all those who have lost loved ones.

With most of the country already under extreme measures, it is clear that we need to do more, together, to bring this new variant under control while our vaccines are rolled out.​