Watford Fc 1-1 Brentford - 15/12/2020

Oh and the number 3 for Brentford was brilliant.

Ivan Toney also very good, brilliant movement.

 

My thoughts exactly. We so desperately need Will Hughes back yet he can't stay fit.

 

And this is where we struggle. We go on about our forward line but the midfield is just dross and do nothing to support our forward line.

 

I do t think we can rely on Hughes for more than 3 games in a row.

 

Brentford best team I’ve seen us play this season. Organized passionate and deserved the point to be fair.

Rico was my motm frustrated Sarr and done well I can see him getting a move to a premier league team if they don’t go up themselves. Would make a great acquisition to our squad.

Toney was a handful gave our centre backs something to think about all night. Another player who will move up in his career.

As for us, I thought a good performance forced on us as Brentford pressed and never allowed us time on the ball. I was thinking the worst at HT. Like been said our midfield is weak not much in looking forward chalobah seemed to do a good job defensive but gave the ball away lots in possession cleverly has had better days but he wasn’t lacking effort. Capoue was needed from the start he added that extra something when he came on.

One things for sure we can’t play with one up top need to start with 2 will ivic do this ? I won’t hold my breath.


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I wonder really how different things would have been if we had signed Grimes from Swansea, or if Bashiru had stayed fit.

That midfield trio is the weakest ever under the Pozzo's, even surpassing the initial Hogg/Yeates/Eustace triumvirate.

Chalobah has had his longest run of games in 4 years, and he's inexplicably getting worse with each appearance. He was easily Brentford's most inventive passer in the first half.

Cleverley does the occasional thing flawlessly, like spreading play, but then spends the rest of the game hiding.

The crying shame is that a 17 years old Chalobah and 20 year old Cleverley would have dominated last nights game. Unfortunately the sport has taken the joy out of both of their games

 

I think our play when we are in our half is good enough for promotion, the problem is when in the other half of the field it’s not good enough but can improve!

 

Brentford are everything we are not. Great movement, energy, creativity.

We are negative, slow and ponderous.

We have technically gifted players who could play like Brentford, so it’s either self confidence, mindset, or coaching.

I’ve said before we should have got Zola back.

Brentford should win the league. Best side I’ve seen us play. Still don't think we’re going up this year.

 

You should have said hello.

 

Definitely two points lost, that is a huge disappointment, I'm not happy with a point at all, I don't see how anyone could be?

We were poor first half, but Brentford weren't that impressive in my opinion. They had a few chances and Toney hit the post from a long range effort, but for all their possession they weren't all that, and I'm surprised that their coach said that was their best performance so far. The best clear cut chance of the half was Sarr's when he finished weakly from a Sema cross and should have scored.

But Ivic just doesn't get us playing as a team, and I just don't know why. He may as well sit in the dressing room watching Netflix, because he shows little reaction on the touchline to what is actually happening.

As an example, it was obvious from the few attacks we had in the first half that their man playing right back was panicky under pressure and shanked several clearances if pressed, yet we just retreated back to the half-way line. Why wasn't our coach shouting his head off to get at the bloke, instead of just allowing them to pass across the back unchallenged?

In the second half we did a lot better and were the better side even before the sending off. We did get at them a bit, and their defence proved vulnerable to pressure and we definitely should have stuck one of our chances away, and when we did it was incorrectly given offside. Brentford didn't get a look-in in the second half. But although better, we were still way, way short of where we should be.

I didn't see lack of effort, I saw a lack of any cohesion. Our team seems to be less than a sum of its parts - quite the opposite to what we want. I wonder if its a sort of fear, as we often hear players saying that Ivic knows what he wants, and I wonder if players are thinking too much rather than being more free-spirited. Too often players have no one to pass to, or maybe one obvious one. To me, when I see a teammate with the ball, I want to provide him with several passing options, rather than (perhaps) worrying about their instructions. That lack of mobility is crippling us when we try and get forward, making it too easy for defences to snuff out the danger.

But, once an acceptable level of fitness has been gained, extra mobility is something every player can do (with one exception,maybe). It doesn't depend on any skills whatsoever, just the right frame of mind. It is the cheapest and most cost effective way of improving team performance.

Just do it!

Edit. Sorry, reading this back, it's a bit of a ramble. Apologies.

 

Another strange performance . No getting away from it we were awful first half. No energy, second to everything , we just didn’t turn up . It’s hard to understand how that can actually happen in a big home promotion clash. Having said that we have not reakky out in many 90 minute performances, so very much consistent with the rest of the season ,

Brentford looked a decent side bit I think we made them look even better. Let’s not go overboard . I think the tv only really had 2 clear cut chances in that first half. Toney hitting the post from long range , was more of a half chance . Given how bad we were generally, we defended well to keep them out .

Again it’s hard to comprehend why we couldn’t have started the first half with the same intensity as the second . It was an improvement, but then we didn’t go for the jugular like we should have done when playing vs 10 men . What an opportunity missed for 3 points.

All in all a fair result I think. Brentford a bit Jn lucky to go down to 10 men. Perica unlucky with the disallowed goal .

I’d like to see Perica and Deeney starting upfront. Perica showing signs he could be decent. His Movement is good and he gets on the end of things.

Still not entirely sure what the issue is. Certainly must be an element of Vlad negative approach, but maybe also fragile confidence generally, together with the lack of crowds . This squad is capable of way more .

While we are still up there I’m not in favour of sacking Vlad as I would rather we continued to give him time to turn the performances around.

 

Also, Deeney is back and he’s back to being undroppable.

This side will only evolve when he retires.

 

The Brentford manager said after the game that that 1st half performance was the best they have played this season and it was certainly a great performance.

However lets not get carried away, as despite the fact they played out of their skin 1st half and put us under the cosh we still were holding them a 0-0 at HT!!!
We then came out 2nd half and were the better side even before they had a player sent off, and in the end we had a perfectly good goal wrongly ruled out for offside.

It could be argued that we probably should have won the game in the end but failed to put their 10 men to the sword, having said that we would have had done just that, had we not had that appalling offside decision against us.

Therefore in the end...............................................

WE WOZ ROBBED​

 

You've probably slept since then forcing a brain reset but you posted this last night too.

 

Where was Quina last night? Injured or whatever?

 

Going to guess that him and Pedro are two more Covid cases that just weren't disclosed beforehand.

 

We were linked with him 3 or so years ago but the perception was he was great going fwd but couldn't defend for toffee. Along with Toney, another bullet dodged.

 

Can't stop scoring though, the old fella's on fire

 

You must be my favorite poster that I have watched over the last few months from afar on twisting peoples words. I have never said we shouldn’t have been behind at half time. We should have.

I just thought it was interesting that you said we were lucky to not be 4-0 down which is clearly a hyperbolic statement in the extreme. You are also using your normal technique of moving the goalposts to, from “4-0” to “not coming in at 0-0”.

Let’s just move on an accept that yes we deserved to be losing at half time, but that no, we were not lucky to finish the first half at better than 4-0. Are you happy to shake on that?

 

He's playing well, scoring goals and creating chances for others. As long as he is doing that I'd agree he is undroppable.

 

Brentford are not even that great, they’re certainly one of the best teams in the league, which was magnified by us just sitting back and letting them have the ball in the first half.

Their obvious extra quality over the usual rank and file was then able to shine through, and they also have the best striker in the league which made it look even worse from our perspective as far as that woeful first have display was concerned.

What happens second half when we decide to not just let them have the ball? They get rattled and can’t deal with it, funny that.

Sitting back in this league and just letting the opposition have the ball does not work, with varying degrees of failure culminating last night in one of the worst halves of football I’ve seen us play all things considered.

I think we’ll get a play off spot playing how we are but not a hope in hell of getting an automatic spot.

The only way that changes is if we start taking the game to the opposition more and for definite in away games. Brentford have shown what is possible on both ends of the scale, they’re one of the better teams so if we actually take the game to the opposition, more often than not it will be successful, but equally if we do then the opposition aren’t going to overwhelm us either. That only happens if you sit back and let them!!

If we want autos we need to start going for wins and to actually take the game to our opponent, it’s not even a question of taking more risks, last night showed exactly where the risks are. If we just want a play off spot, we’ll then we just need to carry on how we are.

 

I agree he isn't the answer on his own but as we can all agree we are far too slow with our movement and without Hughes there is very little creativity,Garner has little bits and pieces but Challobah almost always gives the ball away it seems. I would like to see his pass percentages.
Capoue does give us some athleticism,as do Cuddly,Kiko and Freddie.
If however they are being told to be so pedestrian then Lord help us all!

 

Last night was a bit of an education for me, as I was shocked at how good Ivan Toney was. Physically he reminded me of Zaha and in the second half, when I could see him close up, how he bullied our central defenders, both needing to foul him and getting a yellow card. He was immense and showed up what we have at our disposal for forward players.

Last season they sold Watkins and Benrahma. That should have been the end of them, but no, they manage to sign Toney who is another Premier League quality striker in the making. Brentford are everything we used to be as a club. Smart and astute with their signings. We've gone backwards massively as a club in recruitment over the past couple of years and we're paying big bucks for the likes of Gray because of our poor choices.

We put Toney into our team, and we transform overnight. The old adage of only being as good as your strikers is true. We can be as watertight as we like, but if we do not have a clinical striker at the other end, we're never going to score goals. Our strikers are so poor at taking chances we need to play a more expansive game, one which will create a high volume of goal scoring opportunities. It's the only way.

We do the opposite. We retain the ball needlessly, slowing play down. Pass it around the back hoping if we do launch it diagonally one of their defenders makes a mistake and we get through. We managed to do it a couple of times last night, but when Sema did get to the by line, who was in there in the middle....yes, only Garner. It's this type of thing. Why aren't we committing men forward?

Brentford were down to 10 men but looked far more dangerous when they attacked, and that's because of the quality of their centre forward. We had to lunge in with professional fouls in order to stop him.

Sure, technically we did win that game, but had the linesman not made a mistake with the offside, it would have been yet another flattering victory which would not have been deserved.

Ivic is to blame for the timid tactics, but the board are also big culprits by recruiting so poorly over the years. We've been in the Premier League for 5 years, but our forward line resembles nothing more than a bulk standard set of Championship players. How much money have we invested in Gray, Success, Penaranda and players like this? Why are the recruitment team getting it so wrong in this area?

 

Three things:

- we were fortunate to draw against 10 men.

-Ivan Toney is head and shoulders above our strikers

-Kabasele is really thick

 

Henry?
I've seen him a few times and I'd expect to see him in the PL soon,with Toney.

 

Chalobah is good at breaking up the play, but he just cannot execute a pass. He's been appalling at this all season, and it's cheap possession to the opposition every time which is causing us so many issues. Ok, we're having to play him because Hughes is still out, but without Hughes and Capoue, our midfield is so weak, even at Championship level.

Is he just now a poor player or is it the type of game he's being asked to play and he cannot do it? For me, Chalobah is now limited. He used to be all over the pitch and had a real engine on him. When we first signed him, he was a huge asset in a much higher level of football. The Championship this season is a pale imitation of what it was when we were last in it. It's a doddle now. Very few teams carry any sort of threat and good players should be thriving, head and shoulders above the rest. So that adds the the confusion as to why he's now so ineffective.

It's probably the biggest shame for me, so see a player who had all the potential to be a top player, turn out to be like he is. Just an ordinary Championship midfielder, when he was on the verge of the England squad.

 

That’s one of the key difference between us and them. First half they passed it around nicely while we sat back with Troy isolated (and still too far back imo) we created sod all while they should’ve had at least 2 goals.

Second half we press them higher, they go down to 10 men, Toney ends up way more isolated than Troy was first half yet still causes absolute mayhem and gets both our centre backs booked.

 

Until we get Hughes fit and another decent, motivated midfielder in, we'll just limp along in the current fashion.

 

And should have been sent off really. Not quite sure why there wasn't a booking for the handball and I'm not convinced it wasn't a straight red for the foul on Toney when he was away.

He's found out in a foot race every single time and does that stupid arm linking thing which results in the player falling every single time.

Shocking how much players regress with us.

 

I don’t know what it is with Chalobah, I made this comment earlier but he’ll do something good like win the ball back and almost stand back and admire it only to lose it again, or just misplace a pass. Last night at one point he was facing our goal and shielded an opposition player from the ball, but there was literally not one of our players anywhere near the ball to be able to collect it, absolutely bizarre how his brain must work. The only thing he’s good for is getting a foot in to win the ball back, but after that happens it becomes a complete lottery as to what will happen and what he’ll do or not do next.

 

He's scoring penalties. As usual.

 

In comparison with the TD 2014 15 he’s really not.

 

Agree with this. I would say that Toney's performance reminded me of Rondon's a couple of seasons ago where he played upfront on his own, constantly occupied two centre backs with his movement, pace and strength. His ceiling looks a lot higher than Rondon's too. And to top it all off, seemed like a really nice bloke in the post match interview!

We simply don't have that type of striker amongst our options, even though they're essential if you want to play 4-3-3.

I still cannot believe that anyone sanctioned £18m on Gray. There are much better players in lower leagues.

As a side note, Peñaranda can't even get in the team for CSKA Sofia. Amazing to think how promising he looked as an 18 year old.

 

None of this is a shock. It's been said for years by groups of fans. It was sadly drowned out by those who back the owner in everything he does.

We had a substandard technical director and a brief to do as much as possible on the cheap. Especially in the defensive areas. Now it's the whole squad.

Ivan Toney, despite the delusions of some on this forum, was never on the radar as the club felt that a Udinese 4th string striker and a 38 year old could do the job. The fans celebrated those signings as firm signs of our intent.

And they were certainly signs of our intent. The owners didn't take relegation seriously until it was too late and the same thing is happening again.