[SIGNED perm] Joao Pedro

How the heck would having a barbecue with Gomes in Brazil help him to feel welcome in Herfordshire?!

 

Unless I’ve missed it, where does that document say a player cannot sign a contract? Genuine question, as I can’t see it.

And number 3 couldn’t apply as he’s not moving ‘within the territory of the EU’. It’s just a clause which allows for freedom of movement for EU nationals.

 

I would have thought Origi would have done enough to earn a new contract, but I’m only going on something I heard recently on a chat show saying that Liverpool would be looking to move Origi on. Not sure how true that is, but we were rumoured to be interested in him in the past.

 

God moves in mysterious ways!

 

Yeah we were rumoured last summer, while Origi was injury ravaged and out of favour, but I just don't see them getting rid now, and if he did leave I suspect there'd now be keen suitors from EL and CL clubs.

 

Additionally his cameos this season have probably added 30-50k per week onto what contract he will look for. It’s gone from unlikely to impossible for us now,

 

Very true. We had our chance last summer with Origi and possibly other strikers. Much harder now to get someone in that suits our budget, especially when need CBs. But I would certainly be happy with JP and Pavon.

 

Tell JP that Gibson's butchers in the High Street does a lovely thick steak and sausages endorsed by Vinnie Jones, a World class footballer/ Hollywood actor.

 

Many of the best players in the history of football came from those low quality south american leagues. You have some 10 or 12 european giants that would smash everybody in South America but the rest of clubs would struggle to win the Libertadores imo. You see EPL clubs signing players from Portuguese league or even Netherlands. 99% of clubs from those leagues would be slaughtered in the Bombonera for example.

If the level of the league is fundamental indication of player potential, why you never see English/Spanish players fighting for a balon d'or?

 

Why is it harder this summer? It may be harder for Origi but no doubt some players that were impossible for us last summer would now be possible. It’s all fluid. We would never have got Pavon last summer as he was at the WC with Argentina and being talked about in the £40m/£50m bracket - now it’s quite heavily rumoured we could get him and for anywhere between €13m-€19m. I’d say this window will be easier than last summer as there’s no summer tournament to distract from business and push prices up.

 

We don't really know the intricate details of the contracts. If the contract is watertight then great and Liverpool are wasting their time. If he has a choice of where to go, he will pick Liverpool every time, every time. It must be every kid's dream to play for one of the huge English clubs...not a small club who just lost 6-0 in the cup final. Richie only joined us because the big clubs weren't interested at the time so he needed to use us a stepping stone. JP can go straight to the big team, no need for wasting a season with us and risking losing his place in a struggling team, as Richie did.

 

It just depends on what he wants and who is advising him. Going to an established Premier League club, who are just below the big boys, is a very good option for career progress.

The game is littered with players who signed for a big side but then got nowhere because they were not good enough to push through. At 17/18 these are the years when you need to be given opportunities. Unless he's absolutely sensational he'd not get a look in at Liverpool. We all know that.

Watford will be seen as a good option, especially as it's clear the career path Richarlison has taken. One year at Watford, then a side ward move to another Premier League club, but he's getting regular first team football, before the big clubs sign him.

If he's good enough, then the Liverpool's of this world will always sign him.

I'm not saying Pedro himself would not be tempted, but those around him, should direct him to Watford as a solid career progression.

 

I don't doubt it would best for him and us if he chose us, but I'm just saying he and his agent would always pick Liverpool. Playing in a struggling team might harm their prospects and they might lose their place and never make it to a Liverpool. If Liverpool come calling why take the risk by risking a season at little old wfc?

 

Clearly I am with you on this one HB1. There are countless recent examples of extremely talented young players not getting the right guidance or playing time. Most seem to be on Chesea's books but look at Citee stealing Jadon Sancho off us. The sort of experience Will Hughes has gained at 24 is now rare. Coaches like Sarri rarely take any risk with young players. As I said before it is unlikely JP would get a look-in at Liverpool for some time.

 

Look, he has no work permit yet and without this great start in the spotlight he would follow the usual Pozzo path to Spain for a year or two to gain his work permit from there. With most of their signings we never see them! Of course we want to see him as fans but it will always be a 25 to 30% chance.

No top team will pay 30+ million for an unproven teenager.

 

Yeah, worked out well for Peneranda so far.

 

Not sure, we don’t normally announce all our South American signings. The club wouldn’t have done the whole social media thing if we weren’t hopeful of seeing him. I think they have high hopes for this boy, and he will be one to join us at 18 all being well. And he’ll get played.

The last sentence just isn’t true. Loads of clubs have paid that amount for teenagers. Madrid, Barcelona, Rooney, Gabriel Jesus, Martial, Vinicius Junior, Rodrygo.

 

We could swap him with Scott Hogan (once he returns from his loan to Villa).

 

Gomie might come for his plate but unfortunately get nowhere near it, allowing a young local kid to pop in & poach his bbqed sausage.

 

The nurturing environment of Udinese reserves where he has to polish Big Stef’s boots.

 

It would keep bloody Gomes out of harm’s way.

 

Are you thinking of Sinclair maybe?

 

RK, with non sequiturs like that, you also move in a mysterious way.

 

Prob not, we were linked with Origi last summer:

http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/divock-origi.54822/

 

I said unproven

 

Real Madrid paid €45m for a 16-year-old Brazilian 10 days after his debut.

 

Then remove Martial and Rooney at a push. The rest were unproven when signed.

 

Who did he debut from? Was it from a main European league?

 

Flamengo in Brazil, same league as Joao Pedro - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinícius_Júnior

They also spent another €45m on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrygo_Goes - 8 months after his senior debut (also in Brazil).

 

I hear young Joao Pedro has scored another goal.

 

It seems to me that the bug clubs' best plan would be to let us have him in January. See if he's up to EPL standard then buy him off of us. That would very likely be a cheaper and less risky option than having to pay Fluminese plus the 20 million. I expect that there's a sell-on clause in our deal with Fluminese as well, so it's not like they are without incentive to keep the current deal intact. The only club that can possibly lose out in this is us - and that's only if he comes and is rubbish.

 

The only caveat to the first part of your post is if the Pozzo scouting network has uncovered a ‘generational’ talent in João Pedro. We shouldn’t go overboard after a few games but his record at youth level and subsequent scoring rate in senior football is better than Ronaldo’s and Neymar’s. I’m sure the big clubs will have their South American scouts out in force now - I still think it’s likely he joins us but the big clubs won’t want to miss out on paying £30m-£40m now, if he’s going to cost them £80m+ in 18 months.

Their scouting (and dirty agent tactics) in the coming months will tell them all they need to know.

 

haven’t understood most of the arguments on here re the contract

But this is the best description I have seen (from some dodgy football website)

“
Watford went back to the mine that had given them Richarlison and it looks like they have unearthed another gem. And Fluminense, a club desperately strapped for cash, settled for the first offer that came their way.

The fee, reportedly €2.5million up front with €7.5million in performance-related add-ons, is derisory compared with the combined €90million that Real Madrid paid for Vinicius Jr. and Rodrygo. But the need for instant cash prevailed.

This, though, might not be the end of the story. In the contract that Fluminense signed with Watford – which until João Pedro turns 18 can only be an agreement to sell rather than the outright purchase of the player’s rights – there is a clause that stipulates that Fluminense can pay the Hornets €20million to renege on the deal.

This chink in the contract has awoken the attention of Europe’s upper echelon of clubs, with Liverpool the most prominent among those mentioned. If they made Fluminense an offer that could cover the fine for going back on the agreement plus a little bit more than the fee Watford are currently paying, João Pedro could be nicked from under Javi Gracia’s nose.”


I take this to mean that we have signed an agreement with Flu to buy Pedro (not a contract with Pedro himself), if they opt not to sell to us they will give us 20m. I assume Pedro is under contract with Flu so they can choose to sell him or not and where he goes.

Looks like we have paid 2.5m upfront with a further possible 7.5m to come (doesn’t say if we would get this back)

I think this really means we have put a deposit down and although someone could come in before January to scupper us they would need to do a similar deal with flu , which means they would also risk being scuppered by a bigger club who could do the same and so on.

I can see a bigger club being interested in him if he continues to develop but they might as well let him come to us for a year to see if he finds his feet in the prem and then offer us 30m once we have done the hard work of getting a visa etc

 

None of that is new information relative to what we've already been discussing in the last couple of days relative to the prospect of another club coming in and scuppering the deal.