[SIGNED perm] Joao Pedro

Maybe not but it made sense to me, whereas a lot of the other posts didn’t , It’s not always easy to read through 10 pages of posts and get a clear picture of what’s going on

 

I am not sure about the reliability of the following information, but Sky Sports has an article in Watford News about João Pedro and reports that:
"Watford have agreed a £2m fee for Pedro, but a clause in the contract reportedly states the club must be paid £20m should another team look to sign him.
However, Sky Sports News understands Watford are confident a deal is in place, and that they would be surprised if there was a way for another club to come in and sign the player."

 

That's new - good to hear an up-to-date reassurance that he should still be coming to us.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-bound-striker-on-a-hot-streak-for-fluminense

The club have clearly structured the deal in a clever way to avoid this scenario happening. Maybe the "would be surprised" part might refer to perhaps it not being entirely impossible that another club could come in, but it would require some kind of dodgy behind-the-scenes deal to help Fluminense pay the break clause, and/or in general for them to pay well over the odds for the player.

 

Even though he's done very well so far in seasonal football, it would be very surprising if JP does turn out to be a "generational" talent in the same way as say Neymar or Vinicius Jr have been hyped as possibly being - for one thing, as far as I can tell he's never been capped for Brazil at any level. If he was really pulling up trees in their youth team one might have suspected that he might have featured, or even been snapped up earlier by another Brazilian or European club. Neymar, Rodrygo and Vinicius Jr were all already being capped by Brazil at U17 level, and considered top-tier prospects before they'd even made their senior debuts.

 

Blimey, you've not been paying much attention to this thread have you? In case of there even being a possibility that another club could scupper the deal, which the Sky report today indicates that Watford are confident won't happen, the slim chance would likely involve the other club having to pay much more than £30mil.

 

Liked for bug clubs.


....Liverpool?...

 

Thinking about this more based on what has been clarified around the break-clause, another key reason why I suspect Watford would be very surprised if another club scuppered the deal, is the fact that:
- Fluminense have to pay us the £17.6mil to cancel the deal.

Even if they had a big offer on the table from another club, then it could actually require Fluminense to try and take out a large short-term loan in order to pay the break clause. This could be a huge risk for a club such as Fluminense, as perhaps it could lead to a scenario whereby they pay the break clause, and then suddenly the other prospective buying club suddenly lowers their bid for the player, and/or reduces the amount it's willing to pay up front - and suddenly Flu are left with a massive loan and desperate to sell.

 

Antletico Madrid

 

No I haven't, but TBF I deleted my post before you posted yours so I'm going to claim you fabricated my post to undermine me

 

I think the key issue that nobody has mentioned here, is Fluminese need to pay us 20m to not sell him to us. I believe this might make it around 42.5m as a benchmark for liverpool or a.n.other club to prise him away. (20m+10m+2.5m+10m) Its also interesting that he isnt 18 yet because I think I read that throws a spanner in, regarding any offer we can make to JP himself!

 

Surely his agent will want him to move to Watford... knowing s big move will be on the cards later. Also fluminense will benefit from a sell on fee.

 

Surely Liverpool just have to offer anything over $20m plus our agreed fee?
The issue is most likely to be that JP doesn’t want to join us and prefers Liverpool or another bigger club who is interested. Can we enforce the $20m against Flu if they agree to sell him to us but the player himself prevents that happening ? If he wants to go to Liverpool, Liverpool only offer them $15m and he refuses to join us we may have an interesting problem with Flu unable to pay us and not wanting to sell JP at all given they’d make a loss if they couldn’t avoid the penalty payment to us.

 

Anything is possible, but for me, the most likely scenario is that he signs for Watford. Let's be honest, it's rare for an agent to put the player first. The agent ensuring Pedro goes to Watford virtually guarantees he gets another fat commission in 1 or 2 years time when Watford sell him on.

It makes sense that he comes to Watford first. Liverpool have missed the boat on this one and will have to pay at least £20m over and above what Watford are paying in order to sign him now. I just can't see that happening.

 

I've heard the clause isn't in £ or $ or €. It's actually 20m Russian Rubels. FML.

 

I'm sure we could still enforce the $20m. I sincerely doubt the club would be so confident about signing the player if it would be so simple to mess it up by the player just saying he didn't want to join any more.

 

Hope you're right but I'm just pointing out what might happen. For example do we know that the player has actually said he wants to join us, that he has any discussions with us at all ? It would be an interesting position if he only wanted to join Liverpool and they would only pay Flu $15m. I'm not sure Flu would have funds to pay us $20m if they were only going to receive $15m so would not want to let the player go at all at a loss.

 

If the contracts are sound then they're enforceable by FIFA and CAS. I expect the club would be embargoed and the player banned if they reneged on a cast iron agreement for him to come here. There would be serious repercussions as football deals are seen as sacrosanct in the game.

As for the player, the club says he has a five year contract which starts on 1 January 2020. Would be a bit odd to advertise such detail if they'd had no discussions with him.

 

I think it's fair to assume the player himself wanted to come to Watford. Whether that's changed because of Liverpool's interest is unknown, but when we signed him he certainly was happy to come.

Speaking to Globosport, the 16-year-old said that Richarlison gave him advice to work hard so he can be ready for his big move to the Premier League. Pedro highlighted how it had always been a dream of his to play in England’s top division, but also said he would like to become a champion at his current club before joining up with the Hornets in 2020.

That's is taken from the official website. https://www.watfordfc.com/teams/first-team/factfile-joao-pedro

I remember reading somewhere that the Fluminense president, Pedro Abad, travelled to London to agree the sale of Pedro. A player like him is a commodity and would be totally trusting of his advisors.

I expect very soon to be reading stories that Liverpool's interest in signing him are over. (at least I hope so).

 

I thought he couldn't sign a contract until he's 18 ?
I'd assumed that we've reached this bespoke agreement with Flu to buy him and he will sign the contract when he's 18 as he can't sign before then ? Until he's 18 I presume he can decide whether he wants to sign for us or someone else ?

 

I'm sure you're right but we can't have signed him yet can we ? Maybe we have terms that are agreed in principle which we hope and expect he will sign and have agreed a fee/deal with Flu ?

 

The most logical explanation, based on Watford's statements, is he's signed a pre-contract agreement with us. There's no rule that says an U18 can't sign an employment contract at all, in everyday life or in football. The key is its enforceability and that would be a matter for the courts (and FIFA) to decide if it ever came under any scrutiny.

FIFA rules say we can't transfer his registration until he's 18. I can't see they say anything at all about contracts or pre-contracts. As a general rule they accept a 17 year old in England can sign a professional contract. Other players have followed the same path from Brazil, agreeing deals while under 18 and then moving after their birthday.

 

Probably correct, though the ability to sign a legally-binding "pre-contract" rather negates the inability to sign a "contract" until he's 18, especially if it commits him to sign a pre-agreed existing contract when he gets to 18 ? It would be interesting to know what the pre-contract says.

 

Most football contracts have standard terms and format.

 

I'm sure, but my point remains.

 

Of course we've not signed him yet because of his age. No one can sign him until he's 18 and that's been well documented.

What it appears Watford have is an agreement that he will sign for us, and a hefty financial penalty from Flumenense if he does not. We have even given them £2.5m as a "good will" gesture to help them financially. Now obviously no one can be na*ve enough to consider everyone behaves in a gentlemanly way, especially when it comes to money.

But for Pedro not to end up at Watford, Liverpool would have to stump up at least £30m to cover the cost of the penalty payment, £2.5m already paid by Watford and the original £10m transfer fee. Fluminense are the selling club so will certainly pass that type of cost on to Liverpool.

Like SkySports said yesterday, I'd be very surprised if Liverpool signed Pedro under those conditions.

 

You make that statement like it's a stupid thing to have suggested. I was just responding to your comment that "...when we signed him he certainly was happy to come...." which I guess was just a mistake as we haven't signed him.

 

It's going to be a long summer isn't it?

 

AND IT'S LIVE!!!!!!! (on the forum)

 

Yep wait til we have another 15 "A guy on twitter says we are signing...." threads. Can't wait. It's the best time.
Looking fwd to welcoming Livermore, Long, Rob Green and Luigi Longshot to the club in Aug/Sept once they accept that they are left on the shelf after the other clubs have finished tweaking their squads.

 

The original £10mil fee includes the £2.5mil already paid, so the sum is £27.5mil. However, as has been explained before, chances are it would still have to be much more, as even if Liverpool offer the £17.5mil + say £15mil (so £32.5mil), we could trump a Liverpool offer of £32.5mil by just offering £15.1mil, which would still likely be beneficial for us. Liverpool would likely have to offer £17.5mil above whatever maximum fee we could likely fund, and chances are that would be above the odds for the player.

 

I would say he has signed a legally binding contract that starts on his 18th birthday.

Notwithstanding any contract, he does not have a work permit and those rules may get tightened more in the meantime due to the current political climate.

 

Not necessarily.

The FIFA ban on under 18s signing contracts at clubs relates to them signing standard employment contracts. The pre-contract will not be an employment contract, i.e. it does not make any provisions for him to currently be played or paid by us. The pre-contract is a separate thing.

 

No, this is incorrect and impossible under FIFA's rules. He has signed a pre-contract, which I believe is a legally binding contract that states that he will sign the full employment contract on his 18th birthday.

I found an article hear talking about when City got Iheanacho when he was 17 by getting him to sign a pre-contract. The pre-contract in question was: "a ‘Pre-contract’ with full professional terms only being signed when the player became 18". I imagine we've done the same thing here.

http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/latest-news/how-to-work-round-fifa’s-‘anti-trafficking-of-minors’-rules

(UEA can do doubt correct me if this is somehow false)

 

Yes but if the pre-contract commits him to sign the other contract at 18 which he isn't allowed to sign now.........I'm just surprised that he can commit now to T&Cs that bind him when he gets to 18. You might as well just allow him to sign the full contract now. Whereas if it doesn't commit him to sign the new contract, what purpose does the pre-contract fulfill ?

 

See my post above just now replying to BusheyOrn - Man City managed to do this exact thing previously with Iheanacho. The pre-contract does commit him to sign the professional contract when he turns 18.