[SIGNED perm] William Troost-ekong

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Carpster, Aug 23, 2020.

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  1. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Ekong will have to warm his spot. If he gets his head down and trains hard, I’m sure he will get in the starting 11. Ivic would be stupid to bring him in right away. 3 clean sheets, chemistry and understanding between the backline which started in pre-season. A couple of shakey moments m, but all in all, we’ve been solid.

    Ekong will have to take his place on the bench. I’m sure during the break Ivic will have a good look at him though. So who knows, maybe after the break he’s in the starting 11. However I would feel the boys, that have done well so far. None of them deserve to be dropped.
     
  2. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    Wouldn't put that on Cathcart at all, its Kabasele who gives away the ball, then bizarrely tries to over compensate by running out to stop the cross, instead of covering the middle
     
  3. MIlton Dammers

    MIlton Dammers Reservist

    I doubt Ivic will start WTE as long as we are playing/defending well & winning. He'll wait for a crap performance/result or an injury. He will probably get minutes from the bench in the mean time.
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    So who was Cathcart supposed to be marking?

    With 3 at the back, Kabasele does the right thing in going towards the ball and he should have another CB nearby. Cathcart reacts to slow to cover in my opinion.

    Splitting hairs anyway as I think Cathcart has been decent. I just don’t think he’s been faultless.
     
  5. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

  6. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Agree that was more on Kaba but Cathcart made a very similar pass right at the start of the second half but we just dealt with it better.
     
    IRB likes this.
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The undeniable truth likes this.
  8. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    I think he has haha.
     
    barely1egal likes this.
  9. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    Cathcarts job is to track the left winger advancing on the far side

    Kabasele actually has a good starting position in the 1st picture (after his misplaced pass), the problem is that he makes the classic error of trying to over compensate for his first mistake and races out to close down the right winger, rather than sticking with the centre forward in the middle (where the actual danger is) and letting Wilmot chase back the right winger instead

    [​IMG]

    By the time we get to the second picture, Kabasele has left their centre forward completely unmarked 12 yards out in order to gamble on blocking the cross. Cathcart desperately tries to get across to compensate for Kaba's decision but obviously can't make up the ground in time

    [​IMG]

    Thankfully for us, the scummer hit the bar and we went up the other end and scored :D
     
  10. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Fair enough, I just watched it back and you’re right.
     
    nornironhorn and IRB like this.
  11. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I’ve heard this could happen tomorrow

    #itk #breakingnews
     
    Jack5, davisp2 and Burnsy like this.
  12. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Thought Cathcart was great against Luton to be fair and I’m definitely not a fan of his.
     
  13. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    If we keep 3 at the back we need at least one who can pass forward, or even better, bring the ball out of defence as well.
     
    Chumlax and Burnsy like this.
  14. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Yeah he's generally been fine overall so far. Poor on the ball as always but agree he's been solid defensively. It's just that he's an ageing defender who isn't anything like Premier League quality any more, so I'd rather continue to develop and give game time to Wilmot, who's performances I think have been to a fairly similar level.
     
  15. Bubble

    Bubble Wise Oracle

    I think it's important to have that 'nous' and 'knowhow' at this level. He's been there and done it in terms of getting out of the division.

    I think keeping Cathcart & Kabasele in the team is important, this fella will clearly add some strength and depth in this position which is needed.
     
  16. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    His long diagonal switch up to Sema did get us the goal to be fair to him. Him and Kabasele both seem to almost do worse when they have time on the ball to think and try pick a pass.

    There is enough games in quick succession that I suspect both will get enough game time. Wilmot should be the priority though as he is young and has the potential to be a premier league quality player.
     
    NathWFC likes this.
  17. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    That can happen when you're always falling over yourself to nitpick and correct people in every other post.
     
    RS2 and Sort of OK like this.
  18. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    I thought Wilmot had a good game yesterday, in the two previous league games he gave the ball away quite a few times and was caught out of position again a few times, yesterday he did what he had to do, no more no less! He is young and has a lot of learning still to do, playing in a three is helping him get up to speed nicely!
     
    Sort of OK likes this.
  19. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Agree. Don't have any stats to back it up but felt like Luton didn't press that high or persistently on us, perhaps due to being scared of Sarr's pace. Think this helped Wilmot as he had more time on the ball and showed a decent range of passes.
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Yawn.

    Maybe just evidence that it’s not beyond me to admit when I’m wrong. You should try it.
     
  21. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Thanks.
     
  22. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    No chance Cathcart gets dropped for him, he's our best defender by a fair margin at the minute.

    He had a dodgy 30 seconds after the second half kick off yesterday but was great besides that. Probably our best defender in the air too. Kabasele is good at this level but makes a lot of mistakes and Wilmot is a good prospect but is easily beaten (both in the air and by a tricky winger) too often still. The Luton winger had the beating of him once or twice and I also noticed he got sucked in to aerial balls that Sema was challenging for that left a huge space in behind him too.

    It was Cathcart's pass to Sema that set our goal up, and he seems to work well with Ngakia too, providing him with plenty of the ball.

    Wasn't helped in the first 20 minutes by Garner not wanting the ball but once Garner grew in confidence Cathcart had that option too.

    On top of that he's actually scored a goal this season so to think he should be dropped over Wilmot/Kabasele is a strange one.
     
    Calabrone likes this.
  23. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Well WTE is supposed to coming over tomorrow according to the Wobby, so hopefully he will sign this week, but even if he does I doubt he will start, but might possibly be on the bench for Saturday.

    As for who WTE would replace in the current starting back three, barring injuries I would imagine we will have to wait until the Derby Co game on Oct 17th before we would know that. Of course that is if Vlad decides to break up the existing back three and parachute WTE into the starting eleven.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2020
  24. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    Just some stats for you Nath:

    Pass Success:
    Cathcart 83% (second highest behind Sarr [84])
    Ben Wilmot 78%
    Kabasele 73%

    Total Passes:
    Cathcart 42 (highest Watford player)
    Ben Wilmot 37
    Kabasele 33

    Accurate Passes:
    Cathcart 35 (highest Watford player)
    Ben Wilmot 29
    Kabasele 24

    Noticed on shoutbox you came out of the wordwork a couple of times yesterday - had a go at Sema, had a go at our corners and then randomly had a go at Cathcart. Don't get me wrong, I outlined some negatives to our play in the first 15-20 minutes too but also had plenty of praise for good players/spells

    Appreciate you seem to thrive off negativity but maybe need to pick your battles better...
     
  25. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Our defence is pretty good for Championship level, I'm not sure WTE will walk straight into our team (especially when we're winning and keeping clean sheets), but it does look like he'd be replacing Kabasele. He prefers to play in the middle of a three, might not quite be as quick as Kabs, but is better with the ball at his feet (Cathcart isn't great in this regard, but better than Kabasele)
     
  26. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Sema was good yesterday, made a cracking start, hope he's not one to be sold because he'll be a top player in the Championship if we keep him and he avoids injury. That said, our corners were generally poor yesterday, had one where Chalobah should have scored, but in general, a lot of low crosses which they telegraphed
     
  27. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    We had clearly identified a weakness/oversight in Luton's set up at the front post and the first two corners worked well in attacking it (just poor final execution, but the space was there).

    However, Luton soon figured this out and put a player in this space but we decided to continue attacking it wasting our next 8/9 corners...
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  28. LouOrns

    LouOrns First Year Pro

    What stats are these from mate? I had Cathcart on 76% pass completion - behind Sarr 85%, Garner 81%, Wilmot 79% and then Sema + Cathcart on 76%
     
  29. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    That's great, but why exactly are you showing me these stats? I'm unsure of the point you're trying to prove? Is it that Cathcart is a good passer of a football after I said he's generally poor on the ball? Because regardless of whether that's true or not (and it seems that your stats might actually be wrong anyway), it's clearly not the basis of my reasoning as to why, if given a choice between the two, I would pick Wilmot over him. Even then I've said I agree that Cathcart has been solid overall.

    I also praised players at times yesterday, particularly Ngakia, and posted after the game about it being a good performance, but of course it's yet again convenient for you to go out of your way to ignore that. Isn't it quite amazing how I'm told I'm "so negative" and to be more positive, yet when there are examples of me being more positive, it is purposely and completely ignored by the likes of you in favour of highlighting my "negativity" that is supposedly oh so painful for you to read and engage with. Laughable, really. Our corners were s**t, you've alluded to that yourself, so why you're even mentioning that in regards to me having pointed it out I truly have no idea.

    "I appreciate you thrive off negativity, so let me just go out of my way to create a post that fits that narrative whilst purposely ignoring anything that's been said that doesn't".

    Maybe you should pick your battles better..
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2020
  30. hjw

    hjw Reservist

    it's a long campaign and we will get plenty of injuries, so all the CB's will play a part I have no doubt
     
  31. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Thing is Norn, stats are great and all but they just don't tell the whole story. Cathcart can top all of those lists and it still doesn't prove Nath wrong. Cathcart could have easily racked up most of those tapping to ball back to Foster or rolling the simple pass out to Ngakia. I'm much more interested in what he does under pressure and I think he's middling to poor in that scenario. I don't think Luton's forwards pressed much and Cathcart rarely had a rush on his hands but when he did the quality of his out ball was much reduced.

    I think he'd be my first choice to drop to the bench too, if Troost-Ekong can get Kaba in line.
     
    Moosedog likes this.
  32. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I do feel measuring pass completion stats etc for centre backs isn't massively useful without context - my impression (which may or may not be born out in the stats) is that Cathcart tends to take the slightly easier pass, whereas Wilmot is more willing to try the difficult passes.

    It is strange that our set pieces looked pretty good first two games, but were pretty dreadful last game. Maybe we felt we could't get much joy with ogres they had defending. With all that said Nate should probably have buried one.
     
  33. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Fox in the box
     
  34. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    WhoScored.com but they've since been revised it seems - they've increased Cathcart's total passes to 46 so his pass completion dropped to 76. Kabasele's pass success stats also dropped in their latest update it seems.

    For the sake of accuracy, here is their current stats:

    Pass Success:
    Ben Wilmot 79%
    Cathcart 76%
    Kabasele 70%

    Total Passes:
    Cathcart 46 (still the highest Watford player)
    Ben Wilmot 39
    Kabasele 37

    Accurate Passes:
    Cathcart 35 (still the highest Watford player)
    Ben Wilmot 31
    Kabasele 26

    On the ball more than Wilmot but a lower pass success rate (although a higher percentage of forward passes). On the ball more than Kabasele as well but also had a higher pass success rate (Kabasele had the highest forward pass rate though).

    As mentioned as well, it was Cathcart's crossfield ball to Sema that started the move that gave us our goal.

    This season so far, Kabasele has the highest pass success rate and Wilmot the lowest out of our CBs.

    Last season in the PL, Cathcart was ranked 5th in the league for our squad in terms of pass success (excluding those who played less than 5 games) with 81%. Kabasele ranked 17th with 73%. For Swansea, Wilmot was ranked 14th on 78%.

    Appreciate you can't only look at stats in isolation due to reasons others have said (passes under pressure, difficult passes, etc) but at the same time they can't be completely ignored. He's clearly good at maintaining the ball for our team and probably the best at cross-field long passes too (haven't looked in to stats on that, more anecdotal based). On top of that he seems to be our best threat at set pieces (granted that isn't saying much over the last year or so) so it would surprise me to see him be the player that drops out for a reason other than fitness/injury wise (maybe the international fixtures will have an impact as he'll likely be playing for NI whereas Wilmot and Kabasele will be resting).
     
  35. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    I was referring to the fact that on shoutbox you frequently appeared when a mistake was made with negative comments and then were much less vocal when we were playing well or when a chance was created, etc. There were plenty of discussions throughout the game on under performing aspects (Garner's opening 15 minutes, corners, Kabasele's mistakes etc) but there were also plenty of discussions around good performances in which you didn't seem anywhere near as keen to contribute to.
     
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