We've No Chance, On So Many Levels...

From the Beeb:

The English Football League says a quarter of players at its member clubs "do not intend to get a vaccine" against Covid-19.

And as of last month 31% of players had not received a first dose.

Oh, sorry for the scare, we're all ok, we're Premierleagueship!!!

 

People always used to say footballers were thick, or at least “their brains are in their boots”. Plus ca change.

 

The thing is other people are entitled to not have their health and livelihoods due to lockdowns put at risk by others.

The unvaccinated increase the risks of the vulnerable and those medically unable to take the vaccine. They also increase the chances of mutations and one day we may see a mutation that is more deadly or vaccine immune.

Whilst not having the vaccine may be a choice, it's a bloody selfish one, we should stop short of making it mandatory, but we must do everything we can to persuade people to take it but in the end if the carrot of saving lives isn't enough then at some point we will need to bring out the stick.

 

Has there been a study that actually quantifies the risk causes to others by a certain percentage of the population being unvaccinated? You're far from the only person to highlight these risks but unless we know how risky they are, the argument's severely weakened in my view.

Plus there's no recognised human right that prevents us getting ill. Death can't be outlawed. I don't agree people have the entitlement you set out in your first sentence.

 

There's a human right to health...

 

There is but you know as well as I do it's far more nuanced than that. For a start it's not clear that a right to health is the same as a right to be healthy. There's a limit to how much the state can be held responsible. For example, if someone is at more risk of serious illness/death from Covid because they're obese or have a condition which leaves them immunocompromised, do they have an actionable right against the state for not forcing others to receiving a vaccination?

 

I'd say it was clear, and it isn't the same.

I think the state could be held liable for not instituting an effective vaccination programme at all or for a programme which discriminated against minorities. Beyond that - probably not much. Hard to argue that a failure to make vaccination mandatory would qualify, given competing rights.

That said, I took @hornmeister to be making a moral/ethical statement rather than a legal one.

 

People that are double vaccinated are catching this new variant too, so yes, you do have no chance as a species. Enjoy your inevitable demise.

 

Well, you say that...

 

The point is that over 89% of all people over 12 in this country have had at least one jab, yet a quarter of all EFL players have no intention of getting one. So that's way out of line with the general population and it's pretty shocking and shameful.

 

Thought this thread header was in relation to our premier league survival hopes. Not the survival hopes of the species

 

Do such people never go to the dentist then? Everyone has to have a jab at least once in their lives (whether for blood tests or childhood inoculations) and the check-ups I had at my former dentist were far more disagreeable than any of the three jabs I’ve had. The only thing you have to worry about is the after-effects but they aren’t severe and don’t last long.

I seriously think they should be made compulsory and I’m shocked to hear that some footballers haven’t even had their first vaccination. It’s because of them we are having all these football matches called off, it is taking over an hour to get one’s hair cut and job interviews and courses are still taking place remotely. But there should be more advice given to put at ease the minds of the people who haven’t been vaccinated out of a genuine fear - eg make sure you always have plenty of water and painkillers with you in case the pain after the jab gets bad.

 

If all 7.8 billion die, it would be Gino's fault.

 

Media reporting about 25% of players are unvaccinated.

This is complete character assassination based off very little but my guess would be:

Dennis Unvaccinated
King Vaccinated
Sarr Vaccinated
Clevs Vaccinated
Kucka Unvaccinated
Sissoko Vaccinated
Foster Vaccinated
Bachman Vaccinated
Femenia Vaccinated
Rose Unvaccinated
Masina Vaccinated
Cathcart partially vaccinated
Troost Vaccinated
Ngakia Vaccinated
Tufan Vaccinated
Pedro vaccinated
Hernandez Vaccinated
Louza Vaccinated
Nkoulou Vaccinated
Sierralta Vaccinated
Sema Vaccinated
Fletcher Unvaccinated
Gosling Unvaccinated

 

I suspect these aren't the issues. Assuming any degree of rationality at all, I would guess the concern is around unknown long-term side effects.

 

Well my thought process was

Dennis - “Emmanuel doesn’t need the vaccine. I am the vaccine.”

Kucka - “Nobody jabs Juraj.”

Cathcart - Got the first jab but is too unorganised to get the second.

Rose -Read something convincing online that got in his head early doors and won’t budge.

Fletcher - “What’s covid?”

 

You've got too much time on your hands...

 

Like it. Cathcart had one jab but then Gozzer and A-Fletch freaked him out with conspiracy theories.

 

The jokes about WTE write themselves

 

Humanity would have been saved if only Gino had bought a centre-half!

 

As long as he compensates everyone it'll be fine in the end.

 

I'm pro vax but while I think it's fine to mandate facemasks, social distancing, vaccine passports etc, I'm against forcing a human being to be injected against their will unless they are in serious immediate danger. If I was an athlete I wouldn't take an MRNA vaccine due to heart related risks. I'm not an athlete and I've been lucky enough (compared to several billion other humans) to have an AZ and 2 Pfizers plus a natural infection that wasn't a lot of fun but didn't require medical treatment. I wonder if Sergio Aguero, Christian Erikson or any of the other footballers around the world who've had heart trouble recently took MRNA vaccines?

 

In the UK we have too many nanby panby do gooders who use abuse of human rights as an excuse not to comply with simple rules and requirements.

Our covid record in terms of deaths is pretty awful but I'm sure it would have been much lower had many of the GBP comply with social distancing, mask wearing and vaxxing

People say what they do is their own concern, its actually not. This latest outbreak affects us all. For me I work in the ski industry, our excessive outbreak has resulted in France closing its borders to us and because of that we are in the company i work for having to cancel and refund resulting in massive losses . Very sad.

 

Inextricably linked, my friend, 'for thus 'tis written'.

 

I hope, more than believe, that we will stay up this season.

'Twas ever thus...

 

I think you're wrong to dismiss out of hand the risk to athletes of taking MRNA vaccines. If myocarditis was higher in athletes before the pandemic surely that's a red flag for taking a vaccine that can cause myocarditis? If Kun had heart trouble before the pandemic it doesnt mean an MRNA vaccine didnt exacerbate it. Anecdotally it seems there have been more heart issues with footballers recently which I view as a potential red flag. We are talking about human lives here.

I completely understand your feelings about people not being willing to take small steps to protect others, it's hard to process let alone understand. I found it shocking and incomprehensible when I visited the UK this year.
I've been in several countries during the pandemic and from what I've seen culture plays a much bigger role than intelligence. The Confucian countries are the best I've seen when it comes to covid safety compliance and interestingly, Hispanic Catholic countries are more compliant than Protestant/Orthodox countries. I'd argue that it's how much obligation individuals feel towards their society/community rather than their intelligence levels that decides how compliant they are.

I personally view vaccination and other steps like mask wearing and social distancing as being different in terms of state intervention. Mask wearing and social distancing are relatively straight forward. The reason I respect other's decisions on vaccination is that I don't think the government should have the right to force individuals to inject themselves with an unwanted medication except in extreme circumstances. When you take an MRNA or adenovirus covid vaccine there is an extremely small but real possibility that you might die. In my opinion that choice can only be made by the individual. My choice was to get vaccinated and despite being a leftie, I'm very grateful to big pharma and the Tories for making it happen so fast and so smoothly. Like you I despise those who flout mask wearing and social distancing but I feel differently on vaccination. If vaccines stopped (rather than reduced) transmission I'd be forced to reevaluate my opinion. But right now that isnt the case.

Have you seen conclusive data that people with asthma are more at risk? I've seen quite contradictory data on mild and medium asthma. Most of the hard data I've seen has been on severe lung disease which clearly is a risk.

 

What about the other footballers who have had heart problems recently? There's been a spate of heart related incidents amongst footballers around the world unlike anything that's ever been seen before. At the same time vast numbers of people are being vaccinated with a vaccine that causes myocarditis mainly in a small proportion of young men, especially young men who exercise excessively after being vaccinated.

Excuse me if I don't accept the WFC forum as an authority on this issue. It hasnt been properly researched and at the very least footballers should be taking a week off training after receiving an MRNA vaccine.

 

Who are the ‘religious loons’ you’re referring to?
I haven’t noticed any.

 

Can you show me the evidence that he wasn't vaccinated?

 

Sergio Aguero's cardiologist?