I really shoudn’t be rising to this .. but how are you ‘ not accepting it’ any more than anyone else ? Except for ranting on here ?
It’s a statement not an action. It’s more a feeling from within. What you feel inside about the club/team. You can either shrug your shoulders and say yes, losing 4-1 at home to teams like Bristol City is ok, or you can say, this isn’t good enough and demand more from your team. You can voice this on social media, at the game or at club events if you so wish. I’m just surprised so many fans are just so accepting. I find that a bit odd, considering where we were only 4 years ago. We do have a lot of quiet fans who seem to accept anything. Might as well rename the stadium Lake Placid or change another road name to ‘The Sound of Silence’. Sometimes I think it’s a strength to be as tolerant as we are, but on the flip side it makes us seem not too bothered.
You're now initiating digs at the generic fanbase if they dont share the same perspective as yours you refer to them as odd or too quiet. Funnily enough I do think we are sometimes too quiet at home in encouraging the team which is obviously not what you have in mind at the moment. I've seen you initiate generic digs previously making out that you are the only one not fooled with what is going on and implying others are fools. Imo it comes across as hypocritcal in light of your earlier posts, and the fact that you do it so frequently accounts partly for why people get frustrated and trying to call you out. There's not some conspiracy against you and I actually think some of your posts in previous seasons are very interesting.
Bristol City weren’t all that, but they didn’t need to be as we played right into their hands. As my late father would say, “too much Christmas pud”. So many misplaced passes and stupid errors that just didn’t need to be made. Hoedt was awful again- seems he plays a blinder one game and then drops 2/3 stinkers after. The OG was going in either way, if he doesn’t touch it then the City attacker has an open goal. Felt sorry for TDB. He’s not a full back- he tries hard but is always out of position. A right back is needed in January as Andrews, for all his hard work, is still young and gets exposed a lot and Ngakia is made of breadsticks apparently. Two very flat and dull Boxing Day losses in a row now. Need at least 4 points from Stoke & Plymouth and then the fringe players can focus on Chesterfield. Not too downbeat about yesterday though- by all accounts we’ve been riding our luck these last few weeks so we were bound to come back down to Earth eventually also the attendance was absolutely not over 19 and a half thousand. There were so many empty seats yet online it was basically a sell out. Idk what they do with the figures
I think generally people on here are more positive than realistic. This is an honest observation. I think anything that is remotely critical is jumped upon and the poster gets ridiculed and discredited. There’s a massive appetite on this forum for that type of thing. I call it as it is. If we’re sh1t, I will say it. If we smash Stoke 5-0 on Friday I will be full of praise for the team, but then will be ridiculed for having a different opinion. I will never stick steadfast to a view if things go in a different direction, but the usual suspects say “you said this last time, blah, blah”. I don’t keep records as some do, and I don’t go back months looking for examples to trip someone up. That’s weird behaviour. Some on here have agenda’s and target certain people. Not just me, but it’s certainly is a thing. I see it happen to others. I just post in the moment. It’s almost Cathartic to do this. For me, I don’t care if no one reads it and I would much prefer people put be on ignore as I know honest forthright views are not for everyone.
One of my closest friends supports Portsmouth and also endured a miserable Boxing Day at the hands of a Bristolian club. As we consoled each other last night, not quite the pair of bristols we’d been hoping for at the start of the day.
The missing fans were probably trying to get past the gestapo stewarding. I know if one father with his young lad, turn and ask to be let out of the stadium when the fights broke out.
There's been a lot more negative than positive stuff over recent years for understandable reasons. its simply not true anything that is remotely critical is jumped upon and the poster gets ridiculed and discredited, indeed the opposite has applied more. And I don't agree you are full of praise when we smash a team or get a good win. When this has happened recently your praise has been grudging at best indicating we have been lucky. Imo sticking steadfast to a view if things go in a different direction is exactly what you have been doing lately. Your posts after pne and Blackburn indicated you still thought you were right all along despite making some concessions which you have now retracted after 1 game. Why would anyone dislike anyone for having honest views? For the record I don't dislike you, but I'm glad we don't have a 1000 fans like you at games as with all the negative energy we'd be a bottom 6 club .
You couldn’t be more wrong in what you say, but I can’t be bothered to go through your points against me. You clearly have an agenda as this post illustrates. It’s ok. I’m not going to be able to dent your perception, but if you did go through old posts with an open and fair mind, you’ll see how wrong you are. You don’t come across as a d1ck, so maybe you’ll be honest enough to admit you’ve got me wrong. I don’t like being lied to by the hierarchy and treated as a fool. Most of my issues lie at the very top. I don’t think I’ve ever been critical of the manager. I think the players, bar from 2 or 3 are crap and I wouldn’t mind if any of them go. That tells me how disenchanted I am with the club. The experience I had getting into the ground yesterday has added oil to the fire. But the club is in my heart and I enjoy every victory but I dont believe in any of it. I don’t think it will lead to anything. I dont believe we are going in the right direction. Maybe we have arrested the fall and have levelled. But then I see the disaster class of yesterday, and I realise I’ve been fooled against my better judgement.
I don’t pick up on this at the time, but what was TDB doing for the 4th goal? I think it’s a failed experiment putting him in at RB. Totally out of position and didn’t even try to track back.
Fair enough, agree with you that we have reached the point of agree to disagree so I will sign off from this debate for the time being. I believe the club is in your heart and this is very clear. I'm not gonna go back through old posts to either prove or disprove something because I heard from a reliable source that's weird. I would genuinely love to know why you think I clearly have an agenda and what it might be without getting drawn into another debate. But I won't be offended if you don't wish to clarify this. Anyway happy new year to you, and I wish you many victories to enjoy in 2024 whilst preserving your right not to believe in any of it.
Agenda or perception. Whichever word you’d like to choose. But from what you’ve described it seems to be a characture. Saying what I am and what I am not, but your conclusion is wrong. I’m just a regular fan, who doesn’t like spin or sugar-coating.
Sorry HB1, got to disagree with you on this because the forum until our recent run (Bristol aside) has been a doomscrollers paradise. There's been no end of negativity. For once its nice to actually have something positive to talk about but obviously one defeat and the doom mongering continues.
It’s not doom mongering. This is exactly the point I’m making. You cannot be honest and blunt without someone labelling you a bedwetter or doom monger. This is what I’m describing as having to be positive just so people don’t target you. I think a lot of people bite their tongue or hold back from their true feelings because they care about being got at, and I think that’s a shame as it tends to sanitise the forum and those that stand out are targeted. If the general trend is negative, as was last season, then you can get away with being negative, but this season is supposed to be the “new hope” and anything that is against that, however honest, will be challenged.
Was at fault for the 3rd as well and had a few more "near misses". His positioning is pretty bad (to be somewhat expected having never played there before) and he just lets people run at him and by the time he decides to attempt to make a tackle it's already too late. I think we can get away with him there in games against some of the worse teams in the league where we're expecting to have lots of the ball and to dominate possession (and his skillset may very well be useful in those games) but in the tougher and more even games like yesterday it has to be a non-option.
You, I and many others thought we’d struggle this year. You, I and many others thought the squad would be as unlikeable as previous years You, I and many others thought VI would be gone by Xmas to date you, I and many others are wrong. One poor performance doesn’t change that
I agree. He is poor at RB and can’t be considered an option there. Teams are targeting him. I don’t blame VI being brave enough to try him out but, just as with Hamer/Rajovic, it’s time to stop using TDB at RB and Hamer/Rajovic as first choice. Far too many weaknesses all at once as Bristol exploited. Hamer has done better than expected, but is now reverting to type. Letting in soft goals. Rajovic is not improving leading the line, and these are key positions. We cannot afford to be weak in these areas.
Was that a soft goal from Hamer's perspective? Not right in the corner and not rocketed in, but it did come through a lot of legs so he'd have seen it late. Felt for him for their third, pulled off a good save only for the defence to allow their player the freedom of the park to tap it in just like Ipswich's first against us. Bachmann has had some worse errors for us this season, shouldn't be a reason to drop him
I’m sure you’re lovely, but I would like to date you. VI has been the one bright spark this season. He’s carried the team. I’m pretty sure I would have predicted he’d be gone by Christmas, so happy to admit got that one wrong. But I’m not convinced about the rest just yet. Bottom 6 is unlikely now, but I can quite easily see us going in a losing run. A rejuvenated Stoke then about a zillion away games to follow. That could easily unhinge us. But we’ll have to see how it unfolds and maybe they will buck the trend and make some astute signings.
Without doubt, the ownership has screwed up badly the last few years. No one can deny that. BUT, they made us an established team in the premiership before. In the absence of any Arab states wanting to buy us, or dumb ass Americans with lots of money and no brains, are they not best placed to turn it around and do it again?
I don’t think they are. I think there is enough evidence to show Gino doesn’t know what he’s doing. Far too many bad decisions over the past 4 years is not bad luck. We are now in a worse place than when he took over. We rode a wave under him, but for whatever reason, that’s in the past and is not coming again. Both Watford and Udinese are in decline. It’s not a coincidence this is happening now that the father has stepped back.
No problem with such a defeat, perspective fully back and running again. As if we were ever going to be top 6
All very valid points, and if we can find some mug, like the Bristol city chairman (267 million quid down and counting), willing to throw money at us I would be happy for Pozzo to sell. But the reality is this is not going to happen. While fans are not generally happy, most accept the reality, which is why the Pozzo out movement is a small minority of fans. As long as I can see improvement this season (a reset so to speak) and then in subsequent seasons I will be satisfied. I'm sticking my neck out obviously with my next statement, but I believe most Watford fans feel the same.
I just look at the direction of travel. Will the financial mess Gino has created and saddled the club with be resolved? Will the squad see a continual decline in playing staff? Will decisions continue to be bad? This time next year we could be in a dire place unless things change. I don’t see any evidence we have turned the corner, only false dawns. How can we, as fans, trust people like this to run the club? They spin the truth at every opportunity. Maybe we have levelled out, but I just don’t trust those running it. They are dishonest and incompetent.
@wfcSinatra I quickly checked something: HB1 has blocked me like a petty wotsit, so you may wish to point out to him yourself in response to the above that HB1 has actually directly replied to 33 of your posts over the last two years prior to this exchange - so his claim to have "not seen you before" and to dismiss you as a "newbie" is indeed just another one of his blatant lies and lame attempts to do his own "baiting".
I really don’t understand what people are finding confusing about the HB position. 1) owner/management are dishonest, incompetent and run the club for their own ends (in my opinion) 2) due to their poor performance they have by financial necessity arrived at a lower bottom half championship squad just 4 years after being an established premier league team. 3) Our fans are generally docile and easily led by the management which allows (1) to continue with little accountability 4) All that said, the manager is currently doing a fantastic job with the squad he has been given, and yes the owners/management deserve some credit for not continuing their hire/fire policy of the last decade when things started poorly. And agreed one result doesn’t change that. If you don’t agree and are happy with direction of travel then good for you, But the above isn’t remotely controversial.
And is it possible to take a modicum of temporary solace from #04, whilst still wanting the owners out, yes.
Sometimes you play "like a ****" as Roy Emerson once said. Sounds like we had that times 11 yesterday. I think most of us wished for a team that ran around a bit and cared. We have that. As wfc said hopefully we've learned from yesterday. Hopefully...
The main point being argued on the match threads is HB1s view that the team is 5h1t and bottom 6 relegation candidates who have simply been lucky and who should be booed. The stuff about the owners is a separate issue that has been debated lots and there are numerous separate threads on that. I understand that there is an interdendancy between the 2 issues and can see why you would wish to conflate them but you really are missing the point and providing a distorted summary that misses the crux of hb1s position that some people disagree with.
