Underperforming Players Being Untouchable

Today's second half performance was great, but there were and are still obvious deficiencies in the side, and a lot of them are come from the long standing, repeatedly poor form of certain individuals who need to FINALLY be dropped if we are to genuinely turn the corner and today's second half performance isn't to be a one off.

- Kiko Femenia is the worst starting right back in the league. His defensive positioning is horrific, he is as weak and timid as a mouse and his balls into the box are consistently terrible. I am honestly so, so sick of seeing the guy in our side and ahead the far more talented Janmaat. It's completely bizarre at this point.

- Will Hughes is an thoroughly atrocious wide player. He has absolutely zero pace and rarely effects the game in any meaningful way in an attacking sense at all. This fallacy of him making us more defensively solid is rubbish as well. For all his "hard work" the fact he drifts so far inside so often means we are actually repeatedly exposed out wide because of all the space he leaves. I don't hate Hughes as a footballer and think in a midfield three he'd look fine because he does have some ability, but I truly despise him as a right winger.

- Andre Gray is never going to improve. He's never going to stop having the on the ball ability of Lloyd Doyley, he's never going to stop scuffing the majority of his shots and passes, and he is never going to be a genuine Premier League striker. He has some use off the bench, I won't deny that, but he needs to stop starting games.

- Jose Holebas is an OAP in footballing terms. I have never liked him but I will agree he was very impressive for the first half of last season, that is undeniable, but age has very quickly and dramatically caught up with him and Masina deserves a chance at this point. He cannot do any worse than Holebas has in recent times.

These are players who we now have other options to and who cannot keep getting away with being so poor. We are ****ed at centre back and quite honestly it doesn't matter which of the donkeys we choose, but with the squad we have there is no excuse for these players who have been so poor for so long to be constantly hogging starting spots whilst others aren't given a chance.

 

I notice the 6th word of your post, added for a bit of balance. Shame about the hyperbole negativity, but I do agree we need to give some of our fringe players more game time. I'm sure that Quina, for example deserves Hughes's place for a bit.

 

So you want to replace our centre mid playing out of position on the right wing with... another centre mid playing out of position on the right wing.

Or we could just play our new, £30m, actual right winger? Madness, I know.

 

Do you honestly have no idea whatsoever why a more defensively minded midfielder - who is likely to play solidly in a narrow 2 banks of 4 defensive formation is prefered to an attacking winger? In a team thats not kept a clean sheet since Feb? Come on.

 

To the OP: What a load of overstated negativity. Just look at the language you use - repetitive superlatives post after post after post: 'finally', 'absolutely', 'worst', 'never', 'zero', 'horrific' etc etc ad nauseum (or ad tedium more like). We are NOT as bad as you claim.

We are a mid-low table side. We are not flush with money or players. We cannot compete regularly with many Prem teams on the same level. Yes, we aren't great defensively and it can be frustrating at times, but what else have we got, really? You claim Masina is one answer but he's not impressed that much when he has made the team. Personal abuse about players is pointless.

Where is any meaningful positivity? Why be such a perennial, miserable, defeatist, entitled fan? So glad I don't know you, I think I'd slit my wrists. So pleased you're not our manager either!

 

We didn't play a "narrow 2 banks of 4" formation today, and again, his tendency to drift SO far inside and his complete lack of anything resembling pace has repeatedly left us exposed out wide when we have. The notion that he has any notable effect on our defensive solidity is, quite simply, utter b*llocks.

He doesn't do enough. His imaginary defensive prowess wouldn't atone for his complete inability to effect the game in any meaningful attacking sense regardless.

 

What on earth are you actually rambling on about?

"We are NOT as bad as you claim"... erm, the point of my post is that "we"/the squad of players isn't that bad (bar our centre backs) and that there are players who deserve a chance to show their quality ahead of these few, select, repeat underperformers.

"We cannot compete regularly with many Prem teams on the same level". Again, what are you rambling on about? What does this have to do with me wanting other players in our squad to be given a chance?

You've completely missed the point of my post, and instead played the classic WFCforums supremacist happy clapper role perfectly with your "how dare you have a bad word to say about anything! You're not a true fan like me!" crap.

It's really simple - these players haven't been good enough for a long time and there are other players in the squad who deserve their chance. If that and me wanting to see us utilise the rest of our squad more is so overwhelmingly negative for you then I suggest you go and hide in your safe space with your clappy sticks.

 

Did I say that I'd play Quina at right wing?

 

Well, it's probably due to the lack of options. Gray was our only fit striker today so that's why he played upfront. Hughes was our best player in our last game so fair enough to start him. Holebas played well today and successive head coaches clearly don't rate Masina (Quique putting two right backs who can play on the left on the bench says it all).

I got nothing for Kiko, really poor start to the season from him and a more than capable alternative available.

 

It says a lot about Gray that we looked a much better side when he was taken off and replaced by a winger in his position. We didn't have other options today, but going forward we will have, and particularly in a 1 up top formation he cannot be starting.

Hughes did OK against Newcastle because he wasn't on the wing. What a shocker that is...

 

I have to agree about Kiko, he is always out of position and I have been saying for weeks that he should not be starting in the team. As for Hughes, he is not a winger, but he is good in the middle of the park, so it is a bit of a dilemma whether to play him or not. I have to agree about Gray he is not a PL striker, he is a bench warmer at best and no more. Finally IMO Holebas is still the best LB we have at present, so we need to persevere with him for now.

 

Thought Kiko was okay today, nothing amazing but he didn’t do too much wrong. He bombed down the wing a lot, got our team moving forward when we needed to and also tracked back and made important tackles when Arsenal were on the counter attack.

He also put a decent shift in out of position on the left which was surprising.

Granted, his crossing can be poor and his defending is very weak, but of all the matches so far, this was definitely not the one to criticise him too much.

I think he’d be better as a right winger instead of Hughes but time and time again, Hughes manages to find himself starting on the wing which is evidently not getting the best out of a player who likes to play centrally.

 

Not sure why anyone would expect a change to the starting line up.

QSF has had just a week with these guys so in the short term it's best to choose and try to remould a team who are used to each other than completely overhaul it.

At least he didn't bring on Isaac success.

 

Come on. Femenia lost his man for their first goal, ambling back and Dawson had to cover across meaning their striker had a free turn and shot. Did nothing to challenge for the second goal either when the attacker was between him and Dawson (equally at blame for that one). He was simply jogging aimlessly back, not even to a position to effect their attack.

The number of times I pointed out his inability to run back and defend to my mate that I bored myself (not hard sometimes) and it became so infuriating that I gave up pointing it out.

He really was very bad. Have a look at MOTM2 and see the times he was level with an attcaker he was supposed to be tracking only for 3-4 seconds later to be 6 yeards away from him. If someone gave up that easily in any of my businesses I would have them out of the door in no time. It is crucial for the morale of the team in general. You can see the other defenders don't trust him to be where he should be.

 

Or even MOTD2

 

Just as a reference, heard today from someone who works at the club that players are due 3 weeks paternity leave by law and due to the international break, Masina exercised his right to the maximum 3 weeks. So not been in training and due back Monday.

 

We've got a new manager now so the slate is wiped clean.

We have to accept the shyt players are the best we have.

 

We are not a mid table side.
We are a side heading for releation due to the failure to strengthen the squad, poor management and lazy/mediocre players.
Most fans were crying out for change and could see from last season that we needed to strengthen our squad.
Mid table right now, a pipe dream.
Still, a point against a very poor Arsenal side is a step in the right direction.

 

Nath wouldn't be happy if we won the Champions League.

 

I actually thought Hughes played well yesterday, but agree that professional football team should never play multi-million pound players out of position unless no other choice, like an injury crisis. An average left winger is a 100% better winger than a decent centre mid playing there. It's there profession/speciality to play that position and we do have players that lay that position - Sarr being the obvious choice. Big shut out to Cleverley for his huge effort, I actually think his effort and energy was contagious to the team and Deulofeu played his best game for Watford, in I think his best position, since the semi-final. He had Maitland-Niles on toast all game. Janmaat in for Kiko, Sarr in for Hughes. Who up front though,? That is the big question. Gray and Deeney not good enough. Welbeck?

 

Hypothetically, I like the idea of Hughes on the right. He works hard defensively and adds creativity to our side.

He’s not meant to play as an out and out winger, but a creative player who moves inside into the half space in the channels and makes things happen. A bit like how Bernardo Silva plays on the right for City.

The problem is, Hughes can only move into advanced inside positions when a) he has a wing back who overlaps b) when he has a wingback he trusts defensively. Hughes has neither.

Ditch Femenia and Hughes will look a far better player.

 

You have literally no idea what you are talking about Nath or you are a scum troll.

 

I can see why QSF decided not to make too many changes given he only had a week to judge what he has, but let’s hope he comes to the right conclusions quickly. I think he will.

 

I would actually be happy with Janmaat RB and Kiko ahead of him on the wing.

 

Yep, I can't remember who it was against but they looked ace together when that was tried (I think mazzarri was manager?)

 

I think the Issue was Javi played Kiko as a wing back to support Hughes who is not a winger. I think Flores will play Kiko /Janmaat as full backs, so they shouldn’t get caught out of position as much particularly if we are playing wingers e.g Sarr. I like Hughes but agree he should play centrally, but unlikely to start ahead of Cleverly

 

Good thing about Hughes is he always has a goal in him. Same goes for janmaat.

 

Affect.

 

I'm very much a glass half full kind of person but there are one or two players who definitely need to up there game in Femenia and Gray. I totally agree with that but what I don't agree with is calling these players atrocious or horrific. Neither of these players are that. Femenia needs to work on his defending and maybe Flores is the right coach to help with that. I'm not sure Gray should be starting as looks better as an impact sub. His touch is not of the required quality. Holebas does seem to be struggling and as I mentioned in the Arsenal match thread, I think the the club know that hence the Danny Rose bid. Hughes was our best player at Newcastle and in fact I thought was decent yesterday.
What I find frustrating about the OP is that it has very little balance, really just concentrating on the negatives and very little positives. I'm not saying that having a negative view is wrong, far from it, we do need to look at certain aspects of the team but unfortunate Nath and one or two others can't seem to bring themselves to be positive as noticed on Shoutbox yesterday apparently, with lots of negative stuff being said including a post that said **** off Dele, yet for the last 30 minutes, when the team were playing, well nothing is said. I'm not sure if he was at the game but I would be interested to know if he enjoyed the game at all?

 

I think simply having Sarr in for Hughes will make a big difference to us. His pace (especially if Deulofeu is on the other wing too) will make teams think twice about bombing forward in attack, which maybe isn't such a concern for them with the slower Hughes & Pereyra on the wings. Hopefully this will take pressure off the defence. Also with their attacking threat, our RB and LB don't have to get forward as much, solidifying our back four.

Gray is fine... not ideal but we don't exactly have many options right now. He doesn't boss the front line but he does score goals. Hopefully Welbeck will be ready to play soon - I think he's perfect for the system.

 

Yes I suspect Gray is 3rd choice striker at present with Success 4th. When TD & Welbeck (if ever) are fit he will be on the bench. However he would be useful in the champ next season.
I suspect the team at Citeh will be defensive. I doubt Sarr will start unless he goes with GD & Sarr as the 2 attacking outlets with pace ie no Gray.

 

Only against top teams where there threat comes predominantly from that side.

Femenia would give us no attacking threat there whatsoever.

 

We had a new/returned head coach yesterday. He will obviously take stock. We know you don't like Kiko (with reason), Hughesy in the wrong position, Gray not the best with the basics, Holebas (getting on a bit) and donkeys in the back line. We've heard it all from you before ad nauseam.

But you chose to start a new thread yesterday evening with your usual relentless negativity stuff while paying lip service to what was a quite sensational second half performance.

Do you think that our new/returned head coach isn't already more than aware than you of skills and inadequacies? Did you personally audition for the recent vacancy? What was your pitch? Obviously you didn't get the job. Thank f.ck.

 

I think Femenía is capable of upping his game through better coaching and defensive awareness but unfortunately Gray isn’t because of his poor technical ability which is not going to improve now. I’m happy to have the latter in the squad but not as a starter, particularly as a lone striker.

 

Get out more on a Saturday night. Humour doesn't require thought police. I supported the bloke. But same old, same old ...