The B Word

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by sydney_horn, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    But that is exactly the problem I have with Starmer's Labour. It is a party without conviction and a leader who cannot be trusted.

    I think you are right. A Labour government will be better than this current Tory government (it would struggle to be worse tbh!). And they probably will get in if they don't say or do anything that might split the electorate.

    But I think it's just a very sad indictment of UK politics that a political leader is just saying what he thinks people want to hear rather than selling a vision he truly believes in.
     
  2. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Conviction can be overrated tbh. Blair had convictions and took us to an illegal war on the strength of them. Corbyn had lots of convictions, but couldn’t convince enough people to share them.

    Convictions are not a strategy of their own. You need them to fundamentally ground you, not to decide the route. The route is what is possible.
     
  3. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

  4. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    How could we be so **** as to not turn a profit on this?
     
  5. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    ...and a mere stone's throw from this the Tory flagship Teeside freeport project is 'thriving*'.

    *Cronyism, neoptism, massive enrichment of Tory faithful from public coffers for a white elephant- all the hallmarks of a Tory 'good idea'.
     
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  6. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Full-on Brexit loony, Sherelle Jacobs, exhibiting buyer's remorse in, of all paces, the Daily Brexitgraph:

    TBF is a spectacularly poorly written piece o'shyte containing all the usual tropes about Brexit failing because not enough people believe in it and far too few businesses (ie none) are grasping those mythical Brexit freedoms/opportunities. She obviously has no idea how scientific innovation through R&D for industry actually works and she doesn't seem to grasp that Starmer actually doesn't have to do anything over the Brexit omnishambles just let the Tories fully 'own' it - our changing demographics will do the rest.

    I also feel compelled to *fix* one of her statements:

    Still interesting that it was published.
     
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  7. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Yes, it's too much for them to actually admit Brexit was just the wrong choice. The "best" they can do is to do a Scooby Doo villain impression....it would have worked if it wasn't for those pesky kids.

    Hope she is right on rejoining sooner than we think though!
     
  8. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Oh dear God, my sides.

    Numbers approaching those seen during the US Great Depression and she handwaves them away.
     
  9. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  10. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    Reminds me of the children's book we used to read to our little one. "That's not my Unicorn."

    That's not my Brexit, its taxes are too high. That's not my Brexit, its regulatory alignment is too rigid. That's not my Brexit, its sovereignty isn't imaginary enough.

    Pretty clear what's going to happen now, whether Labour or Conservative wins the next election, Brexit will be de-escalated as a triggering topic and quietly, in the background, things will happen that ensure closer ties with the EU. We won't rejoin, because that won't fly with the thickest, noisiest agitators (Redwood, Farage, Tice etc) and probably isn't possible either. Perhaps it's not even desirable because the terms would be so much worse than the golden, exceptionalist arrangement we had before. But that's probably fine. Rejoining isn't the best way out of the mess anyway. Instead, the UK will be a nice, well-behaved rule-taker, instead of one of the big voices at the table with the sweetest deal and the most vetoes.

    It's the only way because there's just no practical alternative that works in the best interests of the UK. It'll all happen quietly, and without scrutiny, partly because it's boring and complicated and people won't be interested enough. As long as those still wedded to the Brexit idea are able to think we've Brexited it doesn't much matter what else happens. So that's probably how it'll go. It won't undo all the damage but it'll lessen some of the most inconvenient aspects.
     
  11. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I think that’s likely, but the Brexit headcases won’t go quietly. Labour needs a big win.
     
  12. I have to disagree - it won't come near to touching the damage. Our trade will be permanently weakened; and while we cannot be the gateway to Europe for the ROW that we once were, investment will continue to wither. None of that will get better to any material degree without joining SM & CU. We will continue on a course to have a lower standard of living than Poland within 7 years. Where I don't, unfortunately, disagree is that neither Labour, nor whatever remains of a sane Conservative Party, nor, extraordinarily, the Lib Dems, will have the balls to stand up and tell the public these pretty much undeniable truths.

    tldr; we're farked.
     
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  13. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

    But, but, but... won't our independence and sovereignty help?

    I am not quite as pessimistic, but perhaps that's because – unlike some of my British colleagues – I have an EU passport and have been largely unaffected by many of the issues in my own industry.
     
  14. Hopefully I too will be in your more fortunate situation in a couple of months. Unfortunately, as only my grandad, and not a parent, was born in Ireland this particular blessing won't be passed on to my kids.
     
  15. EnjoytheGame

    EnjoytheGame Reservist

  16. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  17. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  18. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Andrew Rawnsley in fine form:

    Three years after Brexit, where is the new golden age that they promised us?
    Nothing in the prospectus has survived contact with reality

     
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  19. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    From the Geordies:

     
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

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  21. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    The B word is starting to be discussed more openly recently.... even on the BBC.

    Last night Newsnight dedicated a whole programme to it. Notably the government, who literally got elected on a "get Brexit done" ticket, were unable to provide a minister to represent them. Telling.

    The only pro Brexit voices were from the "this is not my Brexit" loons like Ben Habib.

    The economic impact is undeniable now. As you say, the fact that we are forecast to perform worse than heavily sanctioned and international outcasts Russia is all the proof you need.
     
  22. Happy Brexit Day.
     
  23. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  24. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    More than any other single line written since we voted to leave, this one lays the enormity of our mistake bare.

    Most of the world sanctioned Russia with the express goal of damaging its economy as much as they possibly could, and Russia are STILL doing better than the UK.

    Our self inflicted damage is on catastrophic levels.
     
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  25. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

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  26. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Particularly when 'mumbling' Amol Rajan and 'pain in the ar5e' Nick Robinson are hosting
     
  27. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    I never listen. I can't be doing with all that arguing first thing in the morning.
     
  28. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

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  29. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    The albino ape is just trolling us now
     
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  31. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

  32. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Is that a highlight?
     

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