Given the history of fascism and extreme right wing governments in Europe, it could also be argued that one of the EU's successes has been the way such movements have had less traction in post-war Europe. The accession of such as Greece, Portugal and Spain occurred after the completion of those countries' transition from some form of absolutism to democracy. A major question for consideration is why such movements are now gaining traction once more. Is that a consequence of the EU, or a signal of a breakdown of the basis of the 'European Project', maybe leading to an unfortunate reversion to 'norm'? For clarity, such comments in no way make me an apologist of extreme right wing views.
Ach, it's not worth it 63... There's enough evidence (Cambridge Analytica / Banks / Leave.EU / Farage etc), and certainly enough about Putin's strategy in the past year, to demonstrate that whether or not Brexit was instigated by and then bought and paid for by Russia it was absolutely in the Russian interest to separate the UK and EU. Britain fell right into the trap by voting to Leave. It has cut the UK off and steered it into gloriously impotent isolationism enabling Putin to make his move. The Brexit cultists will keep banging on about how the EU is failing while the building blocks of the UK's economy literally crumble to dust right under their noses and the value of the pound in their pockets diminishes. None so blind as those who will not see.
There is a tendancy for people to look for extreme answers during financial difficulties. The Nazis in Germany only rose to power because of the crash of 1929. The political choices of individual countries within the EU are down to them. The EU have only ever become concerned and threatened sanctions when countries threaten to break EU treaties that they have freely signed up to. Even Erdogan backs down when it comes to it. Even he's not stupid enough to take his country out of the EU. With regards to Italy, it has to be remembered that only about 15% of the electorate voted for The Brothers of Italy. That is still a lot but it's still only a small minority.
Us leaving the EU was in the interest of many countries. Sure, it was in Russias interst. But saying Brexit was bought and paid for by Russia is just an expression of remainer butt hurt-ness. I can claim with far more justification than you offer above that remain was bought and paid for by European interests. The naivety being expressed is monumental. Do you think European countries were imploring, begging and bullying us into remaining out of selfless good will? Take yourself seriously.
I'm sorry Sydney but you deserve the Hooter Cross for this argument. My whole point, and reason for wanting to leave the EU (with regards to it facilitating far right wing politics) is exactly what you describe in this paragraph. PR allows and encourages the over representation of extremist parties. FPP destroyed mainstreme extremism in the UK, until the Labour party got hijacked. Only 15% voted for them. But they are in power. Are you guys starting to wake up now?
Selfless good will? No. For the good of the majority? I’d venture ‘yes’. It could also be suggested that the UK staying in the EU may have helped counter the rise of right-wing philosophies you rail against.
Sorry if this seems a little rum. But given the brain dead arguments I have seen put forward by the left, and the scathing and insulting comments put to anyone with a right wing view over the years, that last paragraph of yours is nearly too much to bare. What do you call it when the majority includes the people of 27 other countries? You have said this before, but those other countries have never had the right to be involved in our democracy, and, even if you welcome their interference, in reality they have no more right than does Russia. The majority rejected their involvement. That was the whole point of the referendum. We no longer wanted an EU influence. And you are joking of course about us defending the EU from fascism? Left wingers in this country described the socialist Conservatives, under Boris, as the most right wing government the UK ever had. That is the level of stupidity the world has to contend with from lunatic extremists. Remember, I do not differentiate between left and right. There is racism and fascism on both sides in my opinion, both casual and determined. An argument, from the left, that fascist, gammon, migrant hating UK is going to protect the EU from the far right is a precious treasure trove of self exposing comedy. Reality is different.
The only 'rum' thing about it seems to be the quantity of it you must have drunk to draw any of the conclusions in your post from the sentence you have quoted.
Fair do. No offence, but it is point that you always seem to miss. But I think most people will see the irony.
Lefty vanguard brainiacs: The UK is a fascist hell hole. We desperately need them to save the EU from fascism. They will see it alright.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...8?shareToken=2ccc1082e797489e85385da8f3e0baa4 Brewery hailed as a Brexit export champion calls in administrators A Kent brewery that the government proclaimed as an export champion after Brexit, is racing to find a buyer weeks after it revealed it had only one EU customer left. Old Dairy Brewery, which appeared in a promotional video by the Department for International Trade last year to showcase post-Brexit opportunities, has filed notice of its intention to appoint administrators, in an effort to fend off creditors while it tries to find a buyer. The brewery, which is based in Tenterden and whose beers are stocked in pubs across the region, complained last month that international exports had plunged to £2,000 after expecting them to rise to £600,000. It reported that customers in Europe wanted to take British beer but that it was not cost-effective.
The incoming government after the next GE, whatever it's make up and whenever it happens, is going to inherit a real economic mess. Surely, there will never be a better time to apply to join the Single Market (if they will have us). The ERG will bleat, but they might be reduced to a rump of a rump by then. SKS should have the courage to put it in the manifesto, I am sure he will not lose any votes by doing so (remember the YouGov polling shared on here a few months ago). Apart from over 65s, every region and every age group, felt that leaving the EU was a mistake.
Richard Herring said it best: "If I'd known Brexit would lead to the eventual destruction of the Tory party I'd have voted for it."
One poll giving Rejoin a 16% lead over Stay Out, another giving it a 20% lead. https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1580946491530567680?s=20&t=V_cGH2MipBQu3pu76qh0IQ Part of the reason these economic vandals in government are trying to force through regulatory divergence as quickly as possible, is to make it harder to rejoin. I wonder how high the support for Rejoin has to be before it actually becomes a bit of a news story. The Brexit headbangers have done a very good job at cowing the BBC and others so that any discussion about the merits of Brexit is pretty much verboten now.
This is true, no media outlet wants to talk about it. But it’s still too early to propose rejoining. It would lead to the kind of chaos the Brexit headbangers thrive on.
It's the ultimate irony that Cameron's main motivation for the Brexit referendum was to prevent the Conservative party from imploding. How did that work out for you David?
Whichever way you slice it, Brexit has been a catastrophic failure and the only thing preventing rational Brexit voters from admitting that is pride. If you voted for it because you thought buccaneering free trade deals with the rest of the world would make us better off than being part of the Single Market, you've been had. If you voted for it because of sovereignty and you thought the UK could just set its own path without having to take into account larger forces, you misunderstood geopolitics. If you thought it would improve the UK's standing in the world as we'd be playing a leading role in the world again as an "independent" nation, well look at the shitshow we've become, locked into permanent crisis mode. The only thing left to cling to is the somewhat pathetic 'I still think it was the right decision for the country, it's just they've messed up the implementation'.
What we are seeing now is the continuation of Brexit’s vanity. We don’t need experts or to listen to anyone really unless they validate our World-view. Well, look what happens. And no one left to defend it.
India has pushed us down from 5th to 6th in the leaderboard of world economies by GDP. Next to overtake us will be France. Was that really in the Brexiteer roadmap? https://www.statista.com/chart/2825..., Indian,from the International Monetary Fund.
For anyone that missed it, the Telegraph are the latest to join the remoaner, lefty, anti-growth alliance;
True, but he’s a regular for a reason and as folk are pointing out, until recently was there to put forward a different line.
