'Terrorist attack' in Woolwich

Its also becomin a vicous cycle where events like this is gunna anger more english people who will go to EDL marches and such which will in turn radicalise more muslims as evidently some of the 'footsoldiers' in the EDL who dont know their right from left will attack anyone with brown skin.

Having a group that stands up through political correctness to these extremists on british streets is what we need but it needs more educated leaders who can hold their own in a debate. That is the only way it will be taken seriously

I fear that any future attacks that may occur will lead to major civil unrest, the government really need to show some backbone here and iradicate this extremist problem soon before they fail us.They need to stop letting people pulling the race card everytime they are confronted and the muslim community should openly support this and work with them instead of just distancing themselves from the extremists and saying, 'well its not us'.

I feel they have a responsibilty to do this, when the catholic church found out about its peadophilic members they launched enquiries and got to the bottom of it, they didnt just say "well its not the majority of us"

 

I am responding to the often quoted response that it is only the minority. I'm not trying to make a political point with those figures. I am just stating my thoughts, that a tiny minority of a huge number, is still worrying. I honestly do worry about this issue. Most crimes I can deal with and I'm comfortable with the risks. I secure my home, avoid dodgy areas at night, I choose my friends carefully, etc, etc. But this form of crime, along with bombing, etc, is so random that the only defence against it is the hope that the numbers stack up in your favour that there is little chance of it happening to me, or my family. Just a cursury look at the numbers, along with the stated intentions of the radicals, shows me that this is an increasingly worrying issue.

 

Like any good employer would do when its employees are accused of such crimes! Don't kid youself that they would have bothered if it was simply members of the congregation responsible.

 

When the security forces come down hard people scream "human rights" when they don't they get the blame. No matter what people want to say, random stop and search does work, it is a pain, but I dont mind getting stopped, if wastes a bit of my time but I know i dont have any drugs or weapons on me. Following England for the last 20 odd years you get treated like **** abroad but if you dont like it dont travel, England fans had a reputation, whch they deserved, something needed to be done.

All this incident is going to do is who is to blame, Like that incident what caused the London riots, the bloke shot was carrying a gun! The PM should have supported the police and said carry a gun you will get shot!

Someone will blame the cut backs!

 

But it wasnt.... and they did act so?......

 

I think society has to stand united and deal with these extremists. The message has to come from the top. This is England, these are our laws and ideology. If you want to march chanting "Police go to hell, UK go to hell, chop off the heads of non-believers" fine......but then you have your passport taken away and deported. If you do not want to integrate and only want to promote hatred and an anti-British feeling, you are not welcome here.

If you want change, do it the democratic way. This system works and this is the correct way to get things done.

Go to a communist country and see how far you get with these marches. In North Korea you would be rounded up and never seen again. Looking closers to home, would something like this be tolerated in Poland? Never, it just wouldn't be allowed to happen there.

I'm not English, but I consider myself very privileged to have the freedom to come and go as I please. I love the country and I see myself as English in my heart. I have chosen this country to live in because it's a great country. We cannot allow extremists to destroy what we have.

Tolerance of others is England's strength, but it's also their weakness. Britain has to change. People have to be strong and not turn the other eye. This extremist behaviour cannot be tolerated anymore. It needs to be stamped on right now. Enough is enough. The minority cannot be allowed to ruin the lives of the many and they cannot be allowed to strike fear into people's hearts as they do.

 

Couple of points:

I'm not politically right or right wing or whatever you think I might be. I have equal contempt for all things political.

Statistics can mean whatever the government or the police want them to mean, so pointless quoting them. Crime is rising, ive seen it with my own eyes over the last 40 years, it's just our tolerance levels on what is acceptable has risen proportionally.

 

Good post. The problem is that most politicians will say much the same, then do absolutely b****r all when it comes to it, in case they get flak from some sections of the media or pressure groups.

 

I have always admired the tolerance of the English. I was born in England to Irish parents and moved to Ireland in my childhood. Whilst there does exist a minority of right wing extremists in the UK, the majority are very accommodating of different nationalities and beliefs. I know that if there were similar marches in Ireland to the march referred to earlier in the thread, there would be uproar. Either the islamic extremists do not come to Ireland or they do not feel that Ireland is a sufficient threat to organise a protest. No matter how liberal your view or how open minded you are, it is difficult to watch and listen to that type of protest. It does seem like an attempt to provoke a response. There are no easy solutions and it is not something that we have to deal with in Ireland at present. We do have many muslim people living here, but the aggressive and vocal extemists are not protesting, unless they are travelling to the UK to take part in the marches. Clearly a reason for this is that Ireland is not an influencial policitical power and the numbers of immigrants are relatively low. What does seem to be a considerble worry is that some of the protesters are born and bred in England and yet have very anti-English views.

 

Fear of crime is rising certainly and it appears you're one of many to be affected by this condition.

 

None of the Politicians are leaders now, they will make a decision on what will win more votes or not rock the boat, Tony Blair on fox hunting said that if he knew how hassle the ban would have caused he would not have bothered. Thatcher, Love her or hate her she was a leader and was not out to be popular, Fergie, whatever you think of him you would want him on your side. No leaders now, no one with balls.

Cameroon deep down does not want Gay Marriage but has given in and will defo cost him his job and next election, not a leader but prob a nice bloke,

 

I am not sure, but how many people have tried to cut someones head of in broad daylight in busy street in the UK in the past? Not many, dont know about you but it scares the **** out of me. I wish we could blame drugs, drink or mental health but these lovely people were not scared of being caught or ashamed of what they have done.

I may be wrong, but a poll a few years ago said that 25% of muslim males under 30 (I think) thought 7/7 was justified?

I dont think this is the last of these acts we have seen, I really dont see why people who hate this country so much are so keen to be here?

 

I love this country but I think the main problem lies is with Muslims here feeling anger at what they perceive as innocent killings of 'brothers' in other countries such as Iran by U.S and UK troops hence the fact they chose the guy wearing the top.

How do you get to them believe what the British troops are doing isn't what they think it is?

Like someone touched on earlier it is very much a problem with the whole 'brothers' thing that is dangerous.

 

Gang related murders happen every week around the country. They sometimes involve equally horrific ways of ending the life of someone they don't like. They happen in the streets, in public places and in front of witnesses. Yet the level of media coverage is miniscule by comparison. Fact is the 'extremist muslim' agenda sells papers.

 

This is definately the issue but what needs to be done is that these people need to take democratic routes and be encouraged to do so.

However we can't keep allowing these poppy burning protests and other protests to out armed forces.

These are just the footsoldiers its not your average privates decision to drone strike in civilian areas

I just dont see how our government can allow these people to protest at marches where these boys have probably lost friends on their tour its disgraceful

 

sorry can you remind me the last time someone was hacked to death in the middle of the day on a busy road with butchers knives in this country? i seem to have forgotten....

 

Can you send me a link where a gang murder involved trying to cut a innocent persons head off in public in a busy street in daylight and was more than happy to have witnesses and did not even try and get away from the police?

 

The government want this. If every Islam really was that extreme of a religion do you Britain would be living as peacefully as it has. 1.8 million Muslims in the U.K if the religion really was that extreme then let's be honest none of us would be alive would we.

 

When i refer to these people i mean the extremists who protest at the soldier parades ONLY, i am not generalising all muslims

Tbh Squibba I understand your points in this thread however i just think there is no black and white to this situation, everythings grey.

The government need to stand up to extremism and show they will not tolerate them or they will continue to grow, that is black and white

 

I wonder how many pensioners were beaten to death in their own homes for their pension book in 1913?

I wonder how many soldiers had their heads hacked off with a meat cleaver in broad daylight in 1963?

But of course crime is falling right?

 

Trouble is stats can mean what they want them to, I had my shed broken into, caught the blokes in the act, they did one, knew nothing would be done about it but thought best to report it, knew nothing would be done about it and did not expect anything, not a problem, but when someone called me back they tried to convince me that no crime was committed as nothing stolen, was I sure I caught someone and am I sure that the door had not blown open, all he wanted was to not register a break in.

Had my nose broken in a punch up, Police car even gave me a lift home, no report of a crime.

Walk through Watford at 2am on a saturday night see if you think crime is dropping.

The ease and openness of drug buying and selling?

Shop lifting, how many that get caught go to court?

ID theft, Credit card fraud or internet scams

The stats say crime is coming down but I dont think it is, thats my opinion though

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386762/British-woman-beheaded-Tenerife-machete.html

not this country i know, but the point is that is does happen. i remember last year a man with a samurai sword attacked 3 people in london but that result wasn't the first to pop up in google.

if you read newspapers you'd know these things.

 

Statistic >anecdotal stories for me anyday.

Not many people on here were alive in the 60's and those that were were chiuldren oblivious to what the actual crime rate was. How many gangter films are based today? How many well known train robbers or criminals are there today? You can only quantivly asses trends with statistics. You can question the statistics and say they aren't accurate, but that only means you don't know, not that the opposite is true.

 

[video=youtube;RU9QBX4U9qE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RU9QBX4U9qE[/video]

Truth.

 

It happened on a bus in Canada a few years ago as well.

 

I disagree with the "mad" concept totally. They seem to know what they were doing and had a plan, which to me doesn't make them "mad"

 

About 30 seconds in he said he found the reaction more disgusting and horrific than the crime. This is evidence that his opinions ought not to be listened to. Saying that the racism and anger and the justification of the attack is worse than a person being hacked to death in the road demonstrates he has no sound moral compass in my opinion. The rest of it would be easy to go through pointing out his ineptitudes but I don't think it's necessary.

 

Okay then I'll play along; here's a published statistic - violent crime in the UK has seen a six fold increase in fifty years, from 37,000 incidents in 1960 to 980,000 incidents in 2011.

Crime still falling with law and order under liberal control?

 

i think i was living there when it happened. as a society, people treated it as a criminal/medical issue and didn't resort to a deeply angry and introspectie narrative about the collapse of society and the horrors of 'other' cultures because they recognise that on the rare occasion that a bat-**** crazy person get attracted to bat-**** crazy idea and does bat-**** crazy thing, it doesn't equate to a horrifying trend.

 

Once again, the BBC leaps on any opportunity to blame the security services as it leads the news bulletin with the revelation that MI5 knew the two attackers, harrassed one if them and may have even tried to 'recruit' him.

Their information can't be verified as their source has now been arrested on terrorism offences, but they lead with the story anyway.

There is a constant theme with BBC journalism.

They look for excuses and reasons when crimes a committed and constantly seek to apportion blame to the authorities wherever they can.

They criticise the security services for not doing enough and criticise them for doing too much.

They make me puke.

 

The beeb thrives in bashing other aspects of the establishment, particularly the more traditional or authoritarian aspects. What the beeb will never tell you is the countless success stories of the BSS and other intelligence agencies. eg, Bit of a coincidence that a random patrol from Dibble stopped a car with no insurance and it just happened to have a bootful of homemade IEDs and wpns and was on its way to an EDL rally to Off Tommy Robinson.

BSS, like any other public department are struggling balancing resources and priorities. There are less votes in the BSS budget than building a new school or hospital. A difficult jugging act.

 

Thought you believed in a free press? Or would you prefer the kind of accountability Putin has by the the media in Russia?

The answer once again to the argument of deference to the authorities is 'Hillsborough'. Though it could also be the Iraq War. Look what happens when the state isn't held to account.

 

Where on earth do you get this bull**** from? Violent crime has fallen hugely. There were articles recently theorising why - anything from better education to lead paint.

Didn't you ever go to a football match or a gig in the 70's and 80's. Or walk home later after the pub? Do you not remember how violent it was?

Do you ever read a book or a newspaper?

 

What is classified as violent crime though? If I got into an argument with you and pushed you, causing no injury, but you complained to the police that would be a violent crime as it's an assault. And the police would be duty bound to record it under rules set by the government. 15 years ago they'd have not bothered to record it unless you insisted. 40 years ago they'd have laughed at you and told you to feck off. So frankly your stat doesn't make me reconsider what I've been saying.

 

This is all very well, but it you are not really saying what should be done.

We have plenty of law to deal with extreme behaviour, but the difficulty is how to prevent?