Set Pieces

One of the teams I'm working with this season scored this last night off my recommendation - gotta love it when a plan comes together and probably the best goal I've "scored" in my career to date!

Shame WFC don't have a bit more creativity in our set-pieces as crossing the ball in isn't working so far...

 

Funnily enough Brighton did a similar routine to this in the first half vs Liverpool yesterday, though Solly March rather scuffed his shot.

 

Haha yeah saw that as well, harder against a zonal system like Liverpools though, more chance of someone coming out and closing it down and more players in the way of the shot!

 

Thought I'd do a little bit of a breakdown on our defensive woes from corners.



First lets look at some stats - when averaging out the goals + xg conceded for the number of corners faced, we've got the worst Goals per corner faced record in the league. Our xG per corner faced isn't bad at all - so teams are making their chances count, rather than us conceding lots of chances.


=
The above is how we've defended in our previous 4 games (Millwall top left, Swansea top right, Sheff Wed bottom left, Cardiff bottom right). Zonal markers in orange + man-markers in red - so we're pretty heavy on the zonal marking - usually with Ngakia (#2) and Lewis (#6) as the first line of defence, Bayo (#19) usually takes the front post area with Hoedt (#4), Livermore (#8) and Sierralta (#3) as the main central zonal markers.



These graphics are something I use in my work (and create them by hand rather than using data providers etc) - I use them to show how teams concede/create chances as well as where and who is winning the ball in the different zones. Oddly from Bachmanns right hand side, we're not too bad at defending - however from Bachmanns left hand side it's obvious we're conceding lots of shots and goals in a specific area. Now most of these come from the area occupied by Livermore, and we've conceded a lot from corners since his introduction to the starting lineup (Sierralta took this role previously - so we were much more solid with Hoedt, Porteous + Sierralta centrally) - conceding against Cardiff, Millwall and a disallowed goal against Swansea whilst he's been playing.

Now lets look at some examples to see what exactly is happening (better in fullscreen!).



So as you can see, teams are actively targeting Livermore - either by blocking him and putting him under pressure, or simply by overloading his zone with multiple players

So how do we fix this? Let's look at the table below - i've mentioned this elsewhere on here before, but this is a new metric that looks at aerial performance and assigns a value (called HOPS) based on how many aerial duels a player has won and also looks at who they won them against - rewarding them more for winning aerial duels against better aerial players. A HOPS rating of 0.50 means that player will win an aerial duel against another 0.50 ranked players 50% of the time, so Sierralta would beat the average player 78% of the time in an aerial duel. A few things jump out at me here - that Livermore is worse than an average player in the air, yet occupies such a key position (even if he is sandwiched between Sierralta + Hoedt). Secondly - look how many times Bayo/Rajovic have won the ball by the front post area that they occupy. It's zero. Why are our better aerial players occupying a zone where the ball hasn't landed and is unlikely to be a key area that needs defending?



So to me - the answer is obvious. Put whoever starts between Bayo/Rajovic in that central area instead of Livermore and probably drop Lewis to that front post area, with Livermore replacing Lewis at the near corner of the 6-yard area, I believe that will certainly tighten things up.

 

Very good, but Vio’s not going to hire you

 

It's always a difficult one to try and gauge. Teams can defend well zonally, just as teams that defend man-marking can defend badly - there's no "right" way of defending (otherwise everyone would just do that!). We know Bachmann doesn't like to come claim - so are we better putting lots of bodies in front of him (zonal) to protect him or leaving space in front of him for teams to exploit (more man-marking systems)? I'd say zonal, but then that exposes other issues in our squad. Luckily we've seen that VI isn't afraid to make changes regarding the squad and that was in effect on Saturday - the weakest link in our back-line previously (Livermore) was moved to a more man-marking/blocker role in the middle, with Rajovic moving from the front-post to a more central role. Hopefully this fixes things!

 

He must have read your comments and seen your video from after the Millwall match!

 

Saw this and thought of @reids

https://x.com/gauravanlyst/status/1726221191554408471?s=46

imagine our lot attempting something similar

 

Did we sign Gianni Vio yet then or not? I'm guessing not.

Though defending set-pieces has been even more of a problem for us than attacking them even.

Joint highest goals concede from set-pieces supposedly. We've been pretty decent defensively from open play by contrast. It's a glaring issue.

 

We’ve probably signed him and a team of 5 staff ….and we will release them in the summer as it’s just too bloody confusing having more than one person shouting out instructions at the training ground.

 

Those instructions being:

"When defending, everyone move to the front post".
"When attacking, hit the first man with your cross".

 

Reids and Eustace dream-team is a gooooooooooo

 

Good luck !

 

https://twitter.com/Rovers/status/1761453914224783476

1 game, 1 goal.

 

"Now gents, this might sound radical, but I want you - professional footballers - to kick the football into the penalty area, over the head of the first defender, yes you heard me right over his head.
Whilst this is happening - the big lads with big heads, run at the ball, jump, head the ball at the goal and see what happens."

The Watford players looked stunned at Reids - dumbstruck.

"But sir, what are corners for if not to waste everyone's time getting mildly hyped up before us to fail to kick a football properly?" replied the team.

"That settles it," said Gino angrily "I won't hire such radical thinkers for my coaching staff."

"Very good master" drawled Duxbury as he prepared the order that banned the talented individual, who was voluntarily giving up his time to do a gruelling task to help the club he loved for free, from ever being acknowledged by anyone employed by Watford FC.

 

@reids
In your opinion do you think that the Spuds manager genuinely does not work on set pieces?
Because this is something I cannot get my head around .

 

First team I'm working with this season have finished their season. Going from a set-piece goal conceded practically every other game to just 1 in 13 is very decent going (and even that was a direct FK which isn't my remit). Would've liked an extra goal in attack, but at least the chances were there!

Some managers value them more than others, Roberto Martinez is another high profile manager that doesn't care for set-pieces at all. I don't think Ange works on them at all directly, but I know his assistant manager (ex Palace player Miles Jedinak) works on set-pieces with the team in training, so they definitely do some work on them (and they've got a full-time set-piece analyst). So not sure why they're struggling so much at them at the moment

Yeah Gianno Vio was there last season and did very well: 16 set-piece goals scored - 2nd best in the league and 9 conceded - 6th best in the league. So +7 goal difference from them - a stark contrast to the 12 scored and 15 conceded this season!

 

Second team I was working with this season have finished their season - where I struck up a good partnership with their coach in charge of set-pieces, who so just happens to be a much treasured bearded ex-Orn. Joined at the exact halfway point of the season which gives a nice comparison as to the difference good set-piece work makes (scored more set-piece goals in half the season than Watford managed all season!). Won promotion by 3 points so set-pieces made a big difference in the end.

 

Well done, great stuff Stuart.

 

King Marco? Give him a kiss from me.

 

Nathan Ellington actually.

 

TC mentioned when Robbo joined that it was with one eye on our set-pieces. I noticed the other week that we've ditched our previous zonal marking system in order to switch to a more man-marking based system.



Top image was the Swansea game which was the last time we used the zonal set-up, before switching to the more man-marking system against Oxford that we've continued to use since - we also now keep a player up front as a counter-attacking option as part of the new system



It's only been 4 games since the new system was introduced, but the early signs are positive!

 

Noticed us leaving someone upfront as bringing everyone back is one of my pet hates in modern football. Good to see the other stuff explained too and that Robbo appears to be having a positive impact.

 

Think it was Porteous that also said Robbo had made a positive impact.

Probably helping him get more yellow cards too!

 

With Arsenal apparently the corner kings currently, it reminded me that it frustrates the hell out of me how a lot of teams (especially in the prem) don't really push for corners like they used to, especially if they are losing late in the game.

The number of corners prem teams get is so much less than it used to be it seems (I've not looked at the stats).

I think it's a symptom of the Pep effect. No one goes to the byline anymore and tries cross the ball in resulting in corners. Everyone goes to the byline, stops, passes back, passes across the line and passes back to refresh the attack.

Even in the last few minutes of games when a team is losing, you would think the best idea would be good throw the ball into the box as much as possible to maximise the scoring potential - but no - same passing backwards and around non-dangerous areas probing for maybe 1 final opportunity rather than 4 or 5 chances throwing it in the mixer.

I don't know, maybe their strategy is backed up by solid stats.

 

At the risk of us both sounding like dinosaurs, I agree. The whole reason the corner kick was invented, I’m sure, was because it provided a free cross for the attacking team, which would have been seen as the most dangerous ‘pass’ in the game. What makes a cross from the byline dangerous is that the ball is moving back away from the goal, favouring attackers running in rather than defenders. The diagonal ball into the box from a deeper position is not usually as dangerous because it favours the defence. Looking at Watford’s attacks, the most dangerous tactic we have comes when Baah charges past the defence to the byline and pulls the ball back.

 

Think formation also makes a difference, teams playing 3 at the back (which is now very popular) tend to get less corners due to the lack of wingers. No stats to back that up but a few of the teams I've worked with before have complained about that.

 

If only he'd get his head up and pick out a pass when he'd gets there instead of aimlessly drilling it in to the box to none of our players! Very much like Traore.

I guess so, but then there are teams like Manchester United who on Saturday evening were getting to the byline almost at will each attack and still refused to cross, instead looking to pass back every time. These teams are getting the opportunity but just not wanting to take it.

 

The team who attacks the most will gain the most corners regardless of formations etc.
As a set piece coach , @reids , how would you try and counter Arsenal at set pieces?
I understand if you don't want to give away trade secrets BTW !
FWIIW I would go Brian Clough old school and instruct the CBs to " do what I pay you to do "
and to get their head on the ball because if anyone is as old like me he bought the likes of Kenny Burns\Larry Lloyd etc who would have given even Big Dunc a hard time !!

 

That's a tough one! Lots of teams have tried and lots have failed. There's a couple of things I'd try to try and balance things out.

The way they attack is now no secret - They gather a group of players at the back of the 6-yard area who then make runs into and along the 6-yard area just before the ball is played in.



This has proven so effective as ultimately it works against practically every defensive set-up - if you adopt a more zonal approach (like the top image), the attackers are coming from your blindside so you think you've judged the flight of the ball well and are gonna make a good contact on it, just for one of their players to nip in front of you and get there first cos you have no idea where they are.

More man-marking focused set-ups face a similar problem due to those starting positions - the markers have a choice to make. If they focus on their player, then they can't see where the ball is, which obviously makes it a challenge to win the header. If they focus on the ball, they're not seeing where their player is going. Neither is a preferable option!



Whilst they have a squad with a fair few aerially decent players, I actually think their consistency in delivery is probably the biggest threat - I've seen numerous teams in the leagues I'm working in try to copy Arsenals tactics this season (including some of mine!) and despite deploying the same principles, they just aren't anywhere near as successful.

So we know:

1) Set-up doesn't matter (zonal/man-marking)
2) They use a lot of players to crowd the 6-yard area, and focus a lot on stopping the GK coming to claim.
3) Delivery is great + very reliable.

There's a couple of things I'd try, the first was discussed a little further up - the counter attack. They typically defend with 1 player back, 2 on the edge of the penalty area + 6 inside the penalty area. I'm not *usually* for keeping a player up front as a counter-attacking option as the primary goal of defending a corner should be to stop the opponent from scoring and one player up front isn't likely to help that as it's likely they'll have one player back anyway. But, sending 2 or more players up front as a counter-attacking threat suddenly turns it into a defensive tool. The opponent aren't gonna leave one back if you've got 3 on the halfway line, they're going to at least match you player for player - which is then basically removing attackers from the equation. Parma in Serie A this season have often been keeping 3 up front and it's been interesting seeing teams various responses to it - some have been so scared about it that they just abandoned any chance of trying to score from their own corners, basically putting 1 or 2 players inside the penalty area and then just taking short corners. Just look how empty the penalty area is on the below picture!



The next option I'd try is also taken from Italy, the Italian league is big on zonal marking with a lot of teams using a lot of zonal markers. There's usually some very weak aerial players in the teams who'll be useless as zonal markers and pointless trying to attempt being an effective man-marker (I have memories of TC being used as a marker against Mertesacker a few years ago!), so they use them as blockers. Blocking is usually only associated with the offensive side of set-pieces, but it can be an interesting defensive tool as well. They use the blockers to basically try to delay the attackers from reaching the 6-yard area, there's a (not great, but the only one I can find atm!) video example below. This balances out some of the Arsenal strengths mentioned earlier - the blockers aren't competing aerially so don't need to know where the ball is - they just need to stop the Arsenal players from getting inside the 6-yard area letting the rest of the defence + GK to mop up. Also negates the delivery advantage - pointless having fantastic front post delivery if there's nobody there to win it!




Both options come with their own drawbacks and flaws that can be exploited, but could be interesting options to try and counter a very strong threat!

 

Thank you so much for this !!!