Playing Out From The Back

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Nov 13, 2022.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    More and more teams are doing this, but time and again they get their pockets picked and end up conceding unecessary goals, and we are one of those teams. When will teams learn that this tippy tappy football is not the way forward!
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  2. Lubaduck

    Lubaduck Academy Graduate

    TBF we have only conceded 2 goals in 6 after the Millwall debacle .
     
  3. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    The problem is we don't play out from the back. We play it sideways and backwards as we get closed down putting ourselves under more pressure.
    Yesterday we were terrible at playing it forwards and therefore created virtually nothing.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Everyone thinks they can play like Man C or prime Barcelona!
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  5. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I'm sure Man City and Arsenal will be devastated to learn this.
     
  6. Lubaduck

    Lubaduck Academy Graduate

    You dinosaur . Route 1 is the way forward .
     
  7. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    The problem is the vast majority of teams do not have the skill to play like Man City, Arsenal and their like, but still, they try to copy them.

    It's time those lesser teams like us realise trying to play like that when they don't have the capability to do so is actually detrimental to their cause rather than a positive thing. They should play according to what they are good at and then they will probably be far more successful.
     
    FromDiv4 and wfc4ever like this.
  8. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    The best/worst example ever of how not to play out from the back was provided by Arsenal at Vicarage Road a couple of years back. I've never heard our crowd get more excited by the awarding of an opposition goal kick than a corner for us!
     
  9. reids

    reids Squad Player

    I agree that there's definitely levels to how well teams can do it, but the technical quality of defenders and goalkeepers is improving constantly due to the coaching improvements made 15 odd years ago so it makes sense for more and more teams to attempt it - even if they're not at the level of Man City. Mistakes will be made of course, but if you don't play out from the back then the main opposing solution is going long - which means you've got about a 50% chance (probably more considering how the height and aerial ability of strikers has decreased over the years!) of instantly losing the ball and it coming straight back at you
     
  10. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    Got any diagrams and stats to show which one is best? Also have you got any systems to make playing out from the back easier even when faced with a high press?
     
    Lloyd likes this.
  11. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    It can't be too long before the bloke that sits behind me keels over if Watford continue to play out from back. Unless Bachmann or any of the defence tw @t the ball as high and as far as they can he combusts!
     
  12. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Very interesting, Football has certainly changed over the years, when I started watching WFC the ball was " booted " by the defenders every time as the skills weren't around to play " tippy tappy ". Wingers were used more which makes it more frustrating for us as potentially we have the best winger in the division but for whatever reason he doesn't see as much of the ball as we would like!
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  13. reids

    reids Squad Player

    [​IMG]

    I didn't actually have any proof of that so I made this. I compared the average length of teams goal-kicks to the numbers of goals conceded for this season and then the previous 3 full seasons. There's some loose correlation but it's far from concrete proof. Would be interesting to see in a bigger sample size and including lower divisions where the technical quality might not be as good!

    As for playing out from the back under a high press - a lot of it comes down to options. You obviously need people to pass to in order to beat the press, so 3 at the back gives you plenty of options (as the wing-backs will likely be dropping as well) which in order for the oppositions press to be a success they'll need to commit a lot of players to the high press. And then when they commit those numbers forward to press, that then leaves spaces that you can exploit. Midfielders need to always try and find space in order to receive the ball and scanning (constantly looking over your shoulder and looking at where every player in the pitch is) helps everyone know what they're gonna do if they receive the ball.

    Was able to quickly make the below video from Chelseas game at the weekend that demonstrates that well, there's players available for a "safe" pass if Koulibaly can't find an option to progress the ball into midfield, Newcastle have 6 players in a relatively tight space - this lets Gallagher position himself in space. Koulibaly finds him, Gallagher turns and then Chelsea have beaten the press and away

     
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    The biggest problem with this system is you are asking your centre backs to play like midfielders. They need to be able to receive the ball under pressure and to never lose it. When you play against a team who want to press high, then it's best to avoid playing out from the back. All it does is give the opposition a chance you pick your pocket very close to goal. Very often if you win the ball in an advanced position, you could be in a position where you're 1 v 1 with the keeper, or even an open goal. It's high risk with very little reward.

    I think it's a badge of honour with some coaches, but a sensible approach for most teams is to only play it against a side who is happy to sit back and not play the high press.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  15. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    In our case, none of our current CB can do this on a consistent basis. Which is why we see so much backwards/sideways passing. When WTE or Kabasele has the idea to play out from the back, it might be an idea to pass/hoof it long so the rest of the side are able to get back into shape for the opposing counter attack. One of our best attacking move is down the channels. When Sarr is on his A game and has a viable passer of the ball, we look very dangerous. Having a player who can cross the ball into the box is vital also. Louza was a massive part of our attacking play, and without him we look lost in the middle.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  16. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Yup, it also doesn't help that most of our midfielders also aren't suited to it either. Other than as you say, Louza/Asprilla none of them want to receive the ball and are so negative with it once they do receive it. Both Choudhury and Kayembe "play it safe" when on the ball which really impacts our general play. Admittedly Choudhury has seen some improvement in that over the past couple of weeks but we still lack a lot of quality in that area.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  17. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    I see the merits of playing out from the back when the ball starts at the back. What annoys me is when we have possession in the opposition half from a free kick or throw in and we play it straight back to the defence to play out from the back.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  18. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Yeah that's always a frustration. My biggest bugbear is when we build out from the back, can't find a way through so pass the ball back again just for Bachmann to launch it forward to nobody, that always infuriates me.
     
    Victory Road likes this.
  19. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    It's all about strengths and weaknesses in your team and the opposition.

    Playing it out from the back means the ball could be lost in a dangerous position, but invites opposition players to leave their defensive structure and push up which opens up space.

    Our team is quick, so getting opposition teams to push up allows more space in behind and/or frees up space in the middle.

    It reminds me a bit of the zonal marking debate. You can't just look at the goals conceded by poor zonal marking. You also have to look at the counterfactual.

    From the little I've seen of us, we don't seem to be great at winning long balls but do have fast wingers. So it might be better to keep the ball and occasionally lose it (especially against teams with poor strikers) than give it straight back to the opposition. You also have to compare how many goals for and against come by poor attempted long balls by keepers.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  20. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Absolutely. We all have a tendency to remember the outliers or mistakes and forget the times things aren't a problem.

    As you say, it's important to consider the whole picture as objectively as possible.
     
    miked2006 likes this.

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