Lucy Letby

There has been some blame thrown in the direction of the nurses and it fundamentally misunderstands what whistleblowing is.

There have been NHS failures where staff have failed to speak up. This wasn’t one of them. Seven doctors raised concerns here and their concerns were investigated by two external reviews. A nurse raising further concerns, without any new evidence, would have made no impact.

It’s a bit like Savile where lots of people knew what he was like and gossiped, but few had actual evidence. A nurse could have gone to the regulator but nothing would have happened because they would have asked the hospital who would have said ‘yes, we know and it’s been investigated.’

What will be key is establishing whether there was a point early on when the concerns should have been investigated by the Police and not by medical bodies like the Royal College of Paediatrics and why the coroner and PM process failed to result in Police investigation sooner.

 

Not motive, more like trigger event. Usually these beasts have been abused by the parents/are repressed homosexuals/loners who have been mocked by women etc. But aside from the religious nutter aspect, there doesn't seem to be any reason for this monstrous behaviour. It's odd.

Though there is definitely more to the parents then we know. They holidayed in Torquay every single year for example. Peculiar behaviour. I just hope the police have thoroughly investigated these deviants too.

 

It’s a list of every nurse on duty when these incidents occurred!!!
It’s not a list of every incident I understand but how many do you want the court to go through?

My considered, humble, layman’s opinion is she’s ****ed in the head, guilty as sin and the worst, most heinous child killer in living memory.

 

You can present data in anyway you like. What’s key is the limits of that data. I’m just saying don’t assume.

But the defence had an opportunity to demolish it and in the minds of the jury, they didn’t.

 

What are the limits of the data in your opinion?

 

A list of nurses on duty is binary. Either they are on duty for that shift or they are not, so I don’t understand your comment on presenting this particular data.
It is damning evidence, not conclusive, but damning.
Who else could have had the opportunity to, for example, have access to insulin and inject it? The porter? Consultant, other nurse?

Yes, don’t assume, but the balance of probabilities on this evidence alone is a huge indicator, before you even start looking at the other evidence.

 

I hear they used to track the herds of wildebeest each summer.

 

FDIA.

Over 90% of diagnoses are on women, so definitely a good fit here.

 

arf!

 

Another set of parents I feel very sorry for are Letby's. The shame, the bewilderment, the loss of a daughter.

 

Ted Bundy had pets. I presume this post is a joke

 

Tbf he was only killing old people anyway, so like the equivalent of petty theft

 

The Daily Mail (I know, I know...) had an interesting article yesterday giving insight into the police investigation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...urse-blame-chilling-reality-began-unfold.html

It seems they genuinely went at it expecting to rule out criminal action rather than aiming to pin it on Letby, put in place measures to firewall the investigation in the first few months by setting each baby's death apart with different people investigating each in isolation and their intelligence analysts went though hundreds of thousands of records to compile evidence that reconstructed where every staff member physically was at the time of each baby's medical demise. They mapped where locked doors were on the ward and used swipe card data and logs from treatment of other patients on the days in question to show where staff were. Seems like an extremely thorough job.

It also provided the full version of the shortened chart earlier in the thread:

 

Sorry for my tongue in cheek response, as I agree with you,
BUT
people are saying it’s the parents fault because they could be religious nutters (what on earth has religion to do with it?), who holiday in strange English Riviera locations (Torquay is not what it used to be since Fawlty Towers!) and who smothered their only child with too much possessive, restrictive love!

I’m amazed at the level of defence/denial for her crimes.

It’s like conspiracy theorists who will never believe in a guilt/situation no matter how much damning evidence is presented.

FDIA is an interesting condition, but imho it’s more likely to be FITH syndrome.
(Fu#ked In The Head syndrome).

 

I don’t know, I don’t have the data.

Presumably all the times there were any adverse incidents of any sort and all staff rotas for access to the ward. That’s a big data set and this is a very simplified form.

But I’m not questioning the verdict, just the public interpretation of the evidence. This was a nine month trial and if it was as simple as that rota they could have been in and out in a week.

 

No trial ever works like that does it.

 

Political heavyweight Bobby Buckland (Con), who leads the 'tie her up and drag her' pitchfork mob, has given the matter some deep thought and consideration and had come up with a whizz bang idea that satisfies everyone!

He suggests loudspeakers be set up in her cell and the sentence broadcast live to her.

He doesn't mention whether there will be pundits to give some post-sentencing analysis and go over the replays.

Presumably Bobby will have thought of something to stop her from putting her fingers in her ears and going 'nananananana'. Probably something involving tying her up and dragging her to the speakers.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...roadcasting-lucy-letby-sentencing-to-her-cell

 

It’s absolutely heart wrenching to know these poor parents of their murdered infant have to suffer further pain knowing that the evil perpetrator is avoiding facing the passing of the sentence for her heinous crimes.

Facing her sentence in court could help to bring some sort of closure for the poor parents tortured minds. Now they must suffer even more.

Letby is a serial murderer AND a coward.

 

Agreed. It's an absolute disgrace. Personally I wouldn't mind dragging her there by her hair.
She should be made to look in the eyes of the parents as they read their victims statements.

 

Not convinced by this. She could just as well sit there and pull funny faces, pretend to be asleep or put her fingers in her ears in court. That would hardly lead to closure either.

 

Maybe they should have dragged Andy Malkinson into court by his hair before he started his 17-year sentence. Or maybe Sally Clark.

 

AM was a stitch up by ineffective police desperate to get a conviction to help their solved crime stats.

The amount of investigation in Letby’s case and overwhelming evidence and the jury’s considerations after such a long trial makes me believe she is not innocent.

Do you believe she is innocent?

 

I'm not sure I'd agree the evidence is "overwhelming". Surely if that were the case the jury would have found her guilty on all counts within a couple of hours.


With regard to the chart we saw earlier in the thread, my question would be whether there were any other deaths or unexpected emergency situations at the unit when Letby was NOT on duty. Or are we only seeing the ones she's been accused of, with varying verdicts from the jury.

 

I’m genuinely baffled as to why people seem to be defending her or picking holes in the case.

 

Any that happened in the time frame of the investigation that didn't involve Letby should have been disclosed by the CPS in court. I've not followed the trial closely enough to know if any were.

Have there been hideous disclosure failings / cover ups in past court cases? Yeah. You'd have to think her legal team were asking for that info though and it was always open to them to introduce evidence of other incidents not involving Letby if they knew of them too. You'd think she would - she'd worked there long enough and must have heard of others, if they happened...

Plus, if we take the senior detectives at their word, they went into this fully expecting the evidence to point to institutional failings or malpractice, but as they worked through it everything came up Letby. And they said even then they expected her come up with rationale or explanations in her interviews that they'd have to go away and look into, based on her own medical experience, but she came out with zip all.

 

I've done jury service too. I very much doubt throughout history there has ever been 12 more c-retinous terds in one room. The fact we had the power to destroy some poor sods life based on our dreadfully flawed critical thinking skills is really quite terrifying.

12 wretches who had never in their life had any real power. Mocked and shunned by society. But in that Courtroom the judge spoke to us as equals. And in the deliberation room we were all powerful. 12 Gods determinating the fate of an insect.

The verdict? Guilty your honour, on all counts.

The logic behind the decision? Nothing but power-crazed spite.

Maybe Letby's jurors were similarly unhinged.

 

Well the police seem to think it’s ‘overwhelming’, it’s their word, not mine..

And how many deaths/ incidents do you want to be put before court? Pre and post Letby there were very few.

 

I too did jury service at the start of the year, I was on two panels. The first one was a very good mixture of people and I enjoyed it; it was a very simple case that we all agree on.

The second, however, was terrible. One pompous ****** who was clearly trying too hard to be cool and impressive making it difficult to progress the conversation and work towards a verdict, leading the case being dismissed as we couldn’t even get a majority.

 

Well what do you expect him to say? "The evidence was patchy, but we got her on some of the charges!"

She wrote: ‘I don’t deserve to live. I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough, I am a horrible evil person,’

To baldly misrepresent that as someone confessing they're 'evil' shows the quality of the soundbite.

The "I'm not good enough" part he ignores has a definite ring of someone doubting themselves over their capability and whether they could or should have done more to save tbe baby's life. I thought 'evil' people were generally mega-confident psychopath types who think they're above everyone else. Do they generally identify as being "not good enough".

I was also far from convinced by the cops other statement where they said she was "cold" and "calculating" and "showed no emotion". Meanwhile every court sketch of her I've seen, has shown her bawling her eyes out. Maybe she suddenly changed, but there's a whiff of cop invention about that also.

I also read that she was a "loner" and a hermit and a wierdo. Well again, ive read elsewhere she went dancing once a week, went on holiday with friends and seemed pretty normal. If you're working the long shifts NHS staff work in any case, you're not going to have a tremendous social life. So that also seems to be a misrepresentation invented to fit the narrative:-

Cold, cruel, calculating, emotionless, weirdo, hermit. Just like all those others. Except none of it seems very true as far as I can tell.

I do have to say that the more I read about it, the more I do think she's guilty but there's still a bit of a nagging doubt.

 

A scenario.

A series of calamities befalls the workplace where you're at. Major ones that impact everyone. Who's to blame? I think the term they use for this nowadays is "blame-storming". Who's going to carry the can for THIS little lot?

Certainly not the big boys at the top. We can rule them out for a start. They're doing the blaming, not being subjected to it! The insolence. No, no, no. And anyway, they were busy in very important meetings at the time.

Not the under-managers or the supervisors either. They're all ducking for cover and desperately looking for someone to blame. There have been all sorts of errors and slack practice, but they decide the fact that one of the regular shopfloor Joes has been on duty each time one of these events has occurred, there must have been "some sort of sabotage".

I've seen similar to the above in one or two work places. Sĥit rolls downhill is another one of their charming workplace phrases today. "Nothing to do with me, no. Don't know anything about it. Must be the new kid. A Jonah. Doing some sort of sabotage probably."

 

Why would a normal person in control of their faculties and a specialist neo natal nurse trying to keep infants alive write that she killed ‘them’ (plural)?
Surely, it would be written along the lines of ‘I feel guilty I couldn’t save these poor infants and they died under my watch’.

To kill is an active process. ‘I killed them’ is an admission of what she did.
‘On purpose’ is even more damning.
It all fits with the deaths. Lethal levels of insulin in their tiny body didn’t appear from nowhere.
It was administered.

 

The point was about whether she should be dragged into court by her hair to hear her sentencing. I’m saying if you want to go there consider the consequences. Sally Clark is an important case when considering judgements made around assumptions of probability. Everyone wanted a pieces of the evil witch afterwards. Except, she didn’t do it.

Letby, I believe is guilty, but that doesn’t mean the case’s strengths and weaknesses can’t be discussed. That’s not siding with the guilty.