Give Gino A Break?

Ken Furphy:
'I recall during the promotion season, fans booed one of his substitutions. “We’re going for promotion. If I put a horse and cart on with a number 11 on its back, they should cheer encouragement.”'

Graham Taylor:
“Agents do nothing for the good of football. I'd like to see them lined up against a wall and machine-gunned ?some accountants and solicitors with them.”
“Football needs its roots, it needs its connection with the supporters. But those in charge seem to think they can do without them.”
“The biggest thing I've found since I left the game - and I'm glad I chose to leave rather than being sacked - is that so many people are in football for the wrong reasons. Not because they love the game, but because they smell money.”


It seems the one claiming to state facts actually hasn't checked their facts.

 

Good profit on Pedro, dennis, Kamara. Probably a loss om Sarr but could have sold him earlier if had not been keen to go up

 

I thought it was GT but there are others and Furphys quote if it was him, still just as relevant.
We could trade quotes for hours

 

Man buys out of date fruit from dodgy market stall.

Man feeds family out of date fruit.

Family get sick.

Man returns to market stall, buys more bad fruit.

Man feeds family more bad fruit.

Family get more sick.

Bigbadbear: Give Man a break, he’s been let down by the fruit. How is it his fault?

 

Furphy's quote is in no way relevant to your line about Pozzo upholding Graham Taylor's values.

I mean we could, I guess. I'm assuming just random, unrelated ones?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

 

I don't know the quote. As much as I listened to him over the years I don't have a database of everything he said! Nearly everything, but not everything!

I'm also very reluctant to say what GT would or wouldn't have made of this, or any, situation because no one can say for sure, although there is a lot of evidence in the public domain that tells us what he thought about the business of football.

However, I do know two things for sure.

GT was very appreciative of the fact the club chose to recognise him (and Elton) but he did say that it didn't and shouldn't earn anyone an indefinite pass.

And he held football club owners, directors and executives to high standards and had a (healthy) scepticism about all of them, even the good ones. He took a very keen interest whenever anyone put money into a club in knowing whether it was gifted or loaned, and if it was a loan whether there was interest payable and what it was secured against. He was certainly very keen to ensure that a club's assets were protected for the long-term benefit of the club and its supporters. And he had an even keener eye on when, how and why money went out of the game (which is the root of his dislike of the agent culture – although he acknowledged there were some good ones and that there was a role for them in representing players.) He was much more sceptical about agents who acted for multiple parties, though. A player in one deal, a buying club in another, a selling club in another. And I think we can probably all share that scepticism.

 

> Says that many of those with a different opinion to him are 'set in their opinions and not open to a different point of view'.

> Consistently refuses to engage with or answer any of the myriad questions underpinned by facts that they pose which rightly bring his own point of view into question, and keeps on chuntering out the same nonsensical falsehoods that have been directly refuted to him multiple times in this thread (as well as for years previously by certain posters) in dogged defence of it.

 

Thanks. Sorry if it appeared I was dragging you into the ‘what would GT have done’ debate. I was consciously trying not to. Just thought you might know the quote but as it belongs to Ken Furphy it’s little surprise you didn’t!

 

Would be proud of it if 'twere

 

And there are a few sycophants even defending this troll

 

This godamned gypsy burned us! Give us back our 35c

 

Why do you keep calling me a troll because I disagree with you.

Despite all that you say and probably believe we all genuinely have very few facts. Club communications are poor which leaves it to the conspiracy theorists to fill the void.

Say what you like I really don't care, I get it I disagree with you I must be an idiot!!!!!!!!!

 

If you really believe that GT would have liked the way the fans are behaving I am sure you are mistaken.

Watford is supposed to be a family club.

Of course we can disagree, good debate is healthy, but many of you on this forum are spitting venom.

Of course we owe more money than before, if you look at most clubs their books wont look good it is what happens after Covid. You only need to look at whats happening with some of the great Rugby clubs being wound up.

Giono's job is to keep the club afloat and provide us with a playing squad capable of being promoted. He did both of those jobs.

When you are running a business you use every legal method you can to keep cash flow moving, pay the salaries etc.

I get it, I dont understand what Garietta does or why our players under performed so badly.

I presume Garietta would say he does the player trading which shows a good profit most years. I don't know

Give the guy a break. If it was me I would Give Gino a break

 

K

 

Just so I am clear. You think our level of debt is due to losing a season and a half of match day revenue?

 

Some facts for you:

Covid helped us bounce back to the PL with relative ease, despite making a fair few mistakes, something you’ll note we didn’t get away with this season.

The lost revenue from covid through lost gate receipts is slightly less than what our most recent accounts show we paid out in compensation to sacked managers in our last financial reporting period.

We spent slightly less on Bayo than we would’ve lost from covid on lost gate recipients. If you add in Okoye then that combined is far greater than any covid gate losses.

(this takes into account we made a bit over £2m in gate recipients through streaming etc and some games being attended in the covid year, with our peak historical revenue for gate receipts being £9m)

All that is in the accounts which are normally pretty factual if you care to look them up.

 

Comparing a rugby union club – famous or otherwise – to a football club is like comparing an Olympic swimming pool with a hot tub.

Leicester Tigers turnover, £22m

Watford's turnover in our most recent Premier League season, £119m

In fact, Watford lost almost as much as Leicester Tigers' entire turnover in the year to 2021 (£21m).

 

Do you not think the ‘poor communication’ is deliberate and in itself symptomatic of the fundamental disdain with which GP views the die hard supporters of the social asset (ie club) of which he is the current transient custodian?

And if such as @wfc4ever is starting to get uppity about it all, anyone can see there’s a problem. A more mild-mannered ‘I’m sure they’re all doing their best’ poster you could not wish to come across, but if such as they are also expressing concerns and frustration, then things are bad.

You can surely appreciate why posters such as that, and such as myself with 60 years ‘service’, are so incensed is nothing to do with anything other than righteous concern with the way the reputation of the club is being tarnished, along with fear for its very future.
Maybe you don’t.

 

Look, I think all but the most ardent of Pozzo haters would ultimately look back on this period with fondness if we end up stable but in a roughly similar position in the league to where we were when they came, but Jesus, it's not looking good is it? We've just come 11th, the exact same position we did under Dyche, but with over £100m in debt and coming to the end of our parachute payments. Even if you were to turn a blind eye to all the dodgy dealing, you can't forgive a level of incompetence which is putting the future of the club at risk

 

In what possible universe can you say that? A squad with a handful of good players but gaping holes in certain areas has just come 11th in the league...

 

Absolutely depending on who buys us. As long as it’s not another Petchey or Bassini we could be fine but don’t expect anyone to bankroll us back to the prem. Pozzo player-rolled us to the prem …..and more recently debt-rolled us !

 

…but only due to Edwards appalling close season.

 

I have no idea who you are but I hate you.

 

Nice

 

It’s Scott Duxbury.

 

I think he'd probably be able to spell Giaretta too. Unless he's deliberately throwing us off the scent, in which case - will played Scott!

 

Genuine curious question and not trying to stoke anything up: how did Covid help us to bounce back to the PL with relative ease?

 

Wise words.

 

Would’ve thought it fairly obvious as we all lived through it and saw it with our own eyes, but anyway it’s just basic economics. The TV deal in the championship at the time was worth £5m per club, So Gate receipts make up the vast majority of championship clubs revenue who aren’t privileged enough to be receiving £55m in parachute payments.

If you’re Millwall, or Preston, and your total yearly income is about £15m - £20m a year, and that goes down to £5m, how exactly do you buy any players to strengthen? Who do you sell players to to make any extra revenue? How do you even survive without help from the government? Put simply the rank and file Championship clubs were on their knees and couldn’t buy any players, hence it was easier for us.

Whereas we had the benefit of £55m parachute payments, gate receipts represented a much, much lower percentage of our income. We also had saleable assets which raised us roughly an extra £50m (because we had players who we could sell to top leagues who weren’t as affected by loss of gate receipts due to TV money) plus held on to players like Sarr who we otherwise might have sold in a non covid market, or at least found him harder to hold on to.

 

I’ve been a supporter for the past 50 years and I’ve never posted before, however, this topic has in parts infuriated me.

I was pro Gino for many years as were all my family. However, even the most ardent Gino supporter I know, struggles now to defend his actions over the past few seasons.

For me ,certain aspects are indefensible, the most recent example being Giaretta’s contract extension. The rising debt, what appears to be the belligerent use of a certain agent, poor player recruitment, lack of communication and the constant manager merry ground are factors I can no longer accept.

In relation to the agent, the investigations into his activities are ongoing and in the public domain. I cannot see any reason why anyone would take unnecessary risks by continuing to do business with him. Standard practice with most companies would be to cease any business relationship with him, at the very least whilst those investigations continue.

Suffice to say that any credit Gino had with me, and he had a lot, has wained over the last few years and went completely last season when Rob Edwards was sacked.

Graham Taylor is an Icon at our club and none of us are in a position to say what he would or wouldn’t think. What we do know is he had a high moral compass.

Irrespective of what GT may have thought, I personally cannot square some the Board’s actions. Particularly if those actions have placed our club in financial jeopardy or liable to sanctions such as points deductions.

My fear is I cannot see who would buy us, not because I subscribe to the better the devil you know theory, I genuinely don’t see who would consider us to be a viable business proposition as we are now.

I do strongly believe our owner and management have reached a point where they have lost the trust and confidence of many of us and I can’t see realistically how they can get that back.

Whichever way you look at it, we’re not in a good place and I am certainly not going to thank Gino for our precarious financial position, poor reputational standing and growing disconnect between the club’s hierarchy and fans.

 

That’s pretty much my standpoint too. Well said.

 

This entire narrative that you regularly push is largely a myth.

Millwall spent £0m on transfers in 20/21, and £2m in 22/23.

Preston spent £3m in 20/21, and £0m in 22/23.

The rest of the league spent similar amounts in both seasons, when taking into account the massive outlier of Burnley's £40m outlay. Not to mention us spending about £18m this time around, and £0 in the promotion year.

In the COVID season where we were apparently the only team with saleable assets, the rest of the league raised £284m in sales. This year? £156m.