No Cleverley no points - it’s not Edwards shambolic coaching and management - fate as dealt him a cruel hand.
Those are some big ifs. We don't tend to sell in January unless a player pulls a Richarlison, and the time for that seems to have passed this summer window without an event. Also, JP has not been looking a player clubs will make a £30mil bid for in recent games. Today we played better after Sarr got subbed. But even if both went in Jan we wouldn't get relegated this season.
Please drop the 352 formation Mr Edwards or you will end up like ivic ,433 much better in the second half so please play that formation on Saturday from the start get us on the front foot and get at teams rather than sitting off them COYH
The mental tinfoil hat conspiracist in me finds it the tiniest bit strange that Leventhal hasn't tweeted in response to that result whatsoever - he didn't even send one to acknowledge the second goal. Is there some kind of extra long presser going on after the game or is he waiting for something/someone?
Very generous, to be honest, and only at all possible as an assessment because our first half efforts were so incredibly poor it was almost impossible to not appear improved to some small degree given another shot.
Were we much better? We still created hardly anything, and that was against a Blackburn team who were already 1-0 and had something to defend. We've played crap in every formation we've tried this season, that's definitely not the biggest issue
Circle of Life, Watford Edition. Always amazes me how Pozzo builds squads (it's exclusively him who builds them) yet, fans want a manager sacked for not getting a tune out of a squad that isn't built for any particular purpose. Edwards is literally on a hiding to nothing. Yes, he has Sarr and Joao Pedro etc. But whether we like to admit it or not, they have been around a rancid atmosphere too long for it not to have been contagious to them when they have to roll out at Ewood Park on a wet Tuesday night etc. The fundamental issue isn't Edwards. It's the fact that the club has spent years buying the wrong types of character - and has then put them into an absolutely awful environment at London Colony that isn't in any way well-placed to engender a strong team-spirit or sense of collective responsibility. Edwards is CLEARLY trying to change that as far as I can see and hear - but he is pushing water up a hill. He's getting things wrong for sure (sometimes really badly) but I'm happy enough that he's trying with the right mindset. I cannot say the same for most of the players - and less so those above Edwards. He's being sold down the river from all angles. It's madness to blame him IMO. Sack Edwards - get Xisco back. Get promoted maybe. Perhaps thats what some of you/us want, I don't know. But if nothing changes at the very top, we will be back here very soon regardless. I always used to believe Gino had the ability to change. I don't think that anymore. Too stubborn and fundamentally bad at running the club as a football operation in the current day.
Sorry but considering you even recognise how much of an immediate different Xisco made to the atmosphere in the dressing room a couple of seasons ago, I don't see how you can excuse Edwards entirely when he's now been manager for 4 months and if anything the players seem even more clueless with each passing week. Given the issues we had against Rotherham, for us to then have a week and a half to train and then start a game like that again is not a good omen. PS I don't know if lightning would strike twice with Xisco, but he got a bit more from his players first time round than Edwards seems to be getting at the moment. The Pozzos' mistake was more in sacking him first time round when he was a manager who had managed to create more of a team spirit.
Its live right now but once it finishes they upload the recording as a podcast. You can it it on itunes/spotify/all the usual places Tonight's post match should be up to re-listen to by the morning: https://podfollow.com/do-not-scratch-your-eyes/view
For reference, we created basically **** all against Burnley with a back 4, and were probably lucky to get the win in the end, and against QPR we were so very dodgy at the back. Granted, there have been poor performances in a back 3 (WBA still the worst in the 3-4-3 which I don't think we've seen since, and today), but ultimately, there's a personnel issue, which I'm not sure any manager could solve, the RWB is the most talked about, but we have some absolute cloggers in the defence and in the midfield...
I am away at the moment and missed the game. Sounds as if that was a good thing. Worrying times. We started the season poorly, but got results. Now we are playing poorly and not getting results. Very concerning.
I'm still on the side of the fence that believes we have to back a manager and I want to do that with Edwards - and I'm willing to take these lows in the belief that there will be bigger highs. I don't like losing but I ultimately want the club that I enjoy supporting week after week to return. I'm past taking the short-terms highs personally. But I accept that you, and others, don't agree with that. Thats fine. I like what I hear from Edwards and given his previous, albeit moderate, success, I'm more inclined to support him through the initial tough times and understand that we will look bad at times, lose silly games and be in places we shouldn't be in the table. I also accept what I've said above isn't a perfect science and the lows could get out of hand and he gets sacked. Thats what happens obviously - far more so at our club as well. Personally, re-hiring Xisco would be a complete joke and just more justification for fans believing Gino has absolutely no clue. Fundamentally, the bigger issues lie away from Edwards door. You mention that I 'excused Edwards entirely' despite my post stating he's clearly getting things wrong - and badly in some aspects.
Xisco was extraordinarily lucky to have an exceptional Championship squad, with key players coming back to fitness, really, all he had to do was smile and put everyone in their best positions. Granted, the real reason he went was because he rubbed everyone up the wrong way, but I bet Ivic was fuming not to just last a little longer, I bet he'd have loved to have had a fully-fit Masina and Hughes to work with
I agree with this. And I also agree with Burnsy to an extent. Obviously the problems are much bigger than Edwards, that has been apparent since Gracia left imo. But Edwards does seem like a bad choice for me. Ivic, who was in my opinion rightly sacked as he lost the dressing room and performances weren't enjoyable, had arguably tougher circumstances than Edwards. Look at the team in Ivic's first game. Quina starting, Cleverley captain, Kabasele, Ngakia and Cathcart all starting like they do now, Sema as a striker and Kiko out of position. Players like Navaro, Glenn Murray, Sinclair, Dan Phillips on the bench. And he had better points per ganr ratio, goals per game ratio and less goals conceded per game ratio than him. Nigel Pearson had similar PPG ratio as Edwards has now and he coached us in the PL in a very poor season. Eye test tells me he's the worst coach we had since I started watching Watford too. It's definitely true that Edwards isn't the main issue, that doesn't mean he's not a problem at all, imo at least.
The idea that 'not getting relegated' or finishing mid-table is considered to be a positive is hilarious. If Edwards doesn't take us up this season it'll be considered a failure (not all his fault admittedly) and for good reason. Finishing outside the top 6 would be embarrassing imo.
He also said this (presumably with a straight face) so he must have just seen tonight as another in a long line of great performances:
I don't think anyones saying Edwards is blameless. But I would say, with some sort of knowledge, that the training ground was a far better place to be around when Ivic came in than when Edwards came in. The club was an utter mess this summer in terms of atmosphere. Edwards had a far bigger job than Ivic did.
There's absolutely no point in appointing a young British manager with no experience above League 2 if you're not going to give him a chance, if promotion at all costs is the remit, why didn't we just go for a 'safe pair of hands'? For the record, I genuinely don't know if anyone else could get anything else out of this squad, you don't get promoted with 2 stars and everyone else being average. I think he's trying out a lot of things, it's easy to criticise certain decisions after the fact, but he's always going to be hamstrung by limitations with the squad
That first half has to be one of the worst 45 minutes ive seen from a Watford side in a long time. We couldnt pass the ball, our first touch was heavy and we looke dlike we hadnt played any football at all for the last 10 days. Blackburn fully deserved the win in what was a bitterly disappointing performance from us. Will keep the bed wetters happy for a few days though. The midfield were far too deep again, as were the wingbacks and there was a huge gap to the front 3. It was like we were playing 7 at the back at times, no wonder we end up hoofing it forwards so often after a spell of sideways passing. I'm far from convinced by Edwards system yet its laughable that people are calling for his head so soon, this fan base and the Pozzo's really do deserve each other some times. The commentator on the sky red button was able to view a reply of the goal more than once and he said he couldnt see anything wrong wiht it.
Even atmosphere aside (I doubt the place was jolly even before Vlad walked in!), I do think we simply had a better team then too, our defence plus Clev were 2 years younger and less scarred, we had Hughes and Chalobah, and Kiko on the right, even if we didn't have a suitable option on the other side for the first half of the season
Already said my piece on Edwards However I do believe that is now 6 games in a row where we have conceded first? Could be wrong. Yet again we start slow. I don’t understand how Watford is the only fecking team in the world that takes 35mins into the first half to warm up.
Choudhury and Kayembe possibly could be a bit more aggressive and play further uo the field, but they've hardly had any rest all season, maybe it's no surprise that they're playing so deep? In any case, neither of them can pass the ball, so I dearly hope it's a case of either or when Louza gets back
He's right in all fairness. We might not have set the world alight so far but we havent been that bad either, until tonight atleast. We have a new manager trying to implement a new system and a new culture into a squad that has been rebuilt after massively failing last season and a long list of mistakes in recruitment and management. Common sense would dictate that we were always likely to get the odd performance like tonight or that a slow inconsistent start to the season wouldnt be out of the question. Its a bit early for people to be calling for his head and turning on the team.
Are we nearing a conclusion that it doesn't matter who the f**k is the manager if Gino Pozzo is in charge? Sure feels like that to me.
Fair point. The question is whether bad atmosphere or the lack of players is worse. We also had players leaving that were supposedly planed to stay like Suarez and Estupinan, Capoue who was about to leave but then stayed and in the end left after all. I'm just saying, the atmosphere may as well have been better, but the squad was shambles at the start of the last Championship season. Hughes was available for 4 games under Ivic and played 8,1,23 and 22 minutes respectively, so he didn't really have Hughes. Again not saying Ivic shouldn't have been sacked, he was rightly sacked for numerous reasons.
The defence under him certainly were no worse than they are now (almost the exact same personnel ffs) and to be quite honest, I think Cleverley and Chalobah were pretty decent even before we really clicked into gear. Not knocking him because I think he did a pretty decent job under not exactly ideal circumstances (who knows if he could have been a success had he had the team Xisco had available to him!), but I think Edwards has been dealt a worse hand
I still think Ivic was hard done by. He was stitched up by the club not giving him the players for the system he wanted, had disruptive players wanting their move away, had the double millstones of Deeney and Gray ('play us together in the Championship and we'll guarantee you goals'). I suspect he lost the dressing room as he was systematically undermined. I thought he was a good coach who did a good job in trying circumstances. When you listened to his analysis of our performances, he was almost always on the money. If they'd just got him a functioning left back and backed him over certain senior players, I think it would've been very different and sent the right message.
Fair point, it's a matter of opinion. In my opinion Ivic's squad was worse at least because he had less players available. Either way, the difference isn't huge, while the difference in PPG, GPG, GCPG is significant, as well as in my opinion, sadly the performances (not that they were great under Ivic).
I think he's an excellent coach. Just at the wrong place at the wrong time for him(and us) . I've watched some of his games before and after Watford and they were much more enjoyable then games he was in charge here. For many reasons it didn't work out and I would have loved if a fellow Serbian was in charge here, but I feel like it would have been bad for both parties if he stayed here.
Just caught up on the result. Not good. Just found out how we played. Oh dear. Who's to blame? Anyone tryed blaming the Royal family yet? (Apart from the Mail blaming Meghan obvs)
