He's been a dreadful referee towards us for many years. It all started against Hull City in the Championship playoff semi final. Disallows Danny Shittu's perfectly valid goal. Watford 0 The Tigers 2 | Match Highlights | 11th May 2008 - YouTube He officiated a Watford v Arsenal match in the past. What a surprise to see he booked 6 Watford players, but none from Arsenal. Gave Arsenal a soft penalty too. Watford FC - Arsenal FC, Aug 27, 2016 - Premier League - Match sheet | Transfermarkt A 1-0 defeat at Everton. 3 Watford players booked, none for Everton. Everton FC - Watford FC, May 12, 2017 - Premier League - Match sheet | Transfermarkt Also that 2-2 draw at Everton, where he gave them a soft penalty and a free kick on the edge of the box in the final minute. Everton FC - Watford FC, Dec 10, 2018 - Premier League - Match sheet | Transfermarkt
He's been bad news for us for years.....I'm a little shocked that people are surprised at how he officiated our game on Saturday. I was expecting it, as this is what he always does against us. I don't bother mentioning it much these days now, as people just think it's not really a thing. But certain referees are bad for us. Jon Moss is another, as is Andy Madley.
Its a pity the players weren’t surprised. Before the weekend we’d committed more fouls than anyone else in the division - 15% more than the second highest team, you’ve got Kevin Friend as ref and you set your game plan out to bully Arsenal with niggly fouls to stop them playing. I was more surprised we only had the same number of yellow cards as Arsenal
We’re always top of the foul league and yellow card league. We’re the dirtiest team in the planet apparently. You can either think we are cynical and dirty, more than anyone else, or maybe we are penalised more than most clubs when we do nothing more than they do. So it plays out we give away more fouls and get more yellow cards because we’re not treated equally.
To be fair our booking to foul ratio isn’t bad so we’re far from the dirtiest team in the league. We just foul more than others and most go unpunished
We foul as much as anyone else. We certainly are not the worst, but we do get pulled up on it more than others. The goal we conceded on Saturday is a perfect illustration. Maitland-Niles took out Sarr, no foul. This type of thing goes on all over the pitch. The referee turns a blind eye, but blows his whistle when Watford do something like that. This is why we appear to give away more fouls. Of course it’s hard to quantify, without analysing every coming together, and who can be bothered to do that. But it’s a gut feeling that seems to hold true.
He must have the most unfortunate surname among fans' who cannot stand him. I did hear sections of the Watford end singing "Who's the Gooner in the black?" which I thought was spot on and very apt.
My memory of the Everton game was Kabasele waving his arm in the air like an idiot but I may have misremembered.
Regarding all this talk of Kevin Friend being biased towards Arsenal - I found out something interesting in a few games where Arsenal have lost at home to small clubs, including us: 16/04/2012 Arsenal 1-2 Wigan Referee: Andre Marriner 02/03/2016 Arsenal 1-2 Swansea Referee: Robert Madley 31/01/2017 Arsenal 1-2 Watford Referee: Andre Marriner Being no expert on referees I can't comment how good/bad these two have been for us or how biased they are towards bigger clubs (besides, I didn't see our game at Arsenal). Were those results contributed to by the referee being impartial, or was it more Arsenal just not doing the business at both ends?
I seem to recall we absolutely battered them in that game to the point that Isaac Success even came on and led them a merry dance for a while. Can’t recall the ref but Marriner has his detractors around here.
But wasn't Andre Marrier the ref at Spurs who was supposed to be hopeless and gave everything to them?
Many of those clubs have been rancid for just as long if not longer and they've been below where they should be for a long time - even if their team spirit and connection with the fans is better than at ours, I'd take being above our natural level with the problems we have above their situations any day, but it seems we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
The thing is, it’s not just ‘us’ though is it. We are in danger of thinking it’s some sort of in built desire to conspire against us - when in reality, it’s just that these refs, and a few others, are just awful officials full-stop….who have the same trait that they all have - that they have steadily built-up an unconscious bias towards the bigger clubs for fear of the fall out of their decisions in the media.
What was the issue regarding cup final bonuses? That seemed to create bad blood in the squad. Did it contribute to the players saying fark it the following season when things started going t1ts up?[/QUOTE] We will never actually know. But I wouldn't rule it out.
Basically, you have to trust your own instincts on matters like this. Looking back on games with Mr Friend, we've lost the vast majority and there have been numerous controversial decisions to have gone against us. I could not find anything favourable that he's given us in all games he's been in charge. By favourable, I mean a controversial incident that has gone our way. For me, the weight of evidence against this operator is damning. People are people, referees are people (allegedly) so it stands to reason some will just not like us for whatever reason. Some tend to be very good towards us, although this number is extremely limited. The majority are bland and do not stand out. They are good, bad or indifferent, but generally honest and unbiased. There are a few that I have serious reservations over their integrity. Kevin Friend is one of those. It's easy to say, he's just bad. If that was the case, then there would be some type of levelling off over the years. We'd have had a balance of the good and the bad with him. But that's not the case with this guy. Since that Hull City play off game, where he disallowed a perfectly good Danny Shittu goal, when the score was 0-0, this is our record when he's officiated us. P 19 W 2 D 6 L 11 Yellow cards to Watford 44, yellow cards to opponent 23 Red cards to Watford 3, red cards to opponent 0 Penalties to Watford 1, penalties to opponent 6. Our record with him in charge is atrocious......and I wonder why that is.
I saw something that said in our game v arsenal we gave up 19 fouls, which was by far the most in any prem game this year. As others have pointed out, this could be because we're dirty, although a lack of hulking bruisers (Cuska aside) would point against that, or it could be because fouls are given more easily against us. There'll be less outcry. Against our 19, I think arsenal supposedly committed 6. A hell of an imbalance that certainly says something was going on.
Could a large percentage of that not just be because the majority of the games he’s taken charge of, we have been the underdogs and have ended up losing games we’d be expected to lose anyway? How many of those games have been against clubs who could be deemed ‘big clubs’ for the example? Maybe there are a very small minority of ref’s who go into games pre-swayed in the way they will lean against one team - and maybe Kevin Friend does do that against us. I’m not saying you’re wrong. I just have a hard time believing it personally. As I say, I’m more inclined to believe it’s 95% unconscious bias towards the big clubs and then a small part of actual knowing bias - because ultimately refs want a quiet week in the media if they can, and going against fans with huge fanbases and fans in the media just isn’t worth the fallout when weighed up against making the right decision. What would be good is if people like Mr Friend were able to be publicly scrutinised from time-to-time. It would be great to know why exactly he felt a body-check on Sarr wasn’t a FK and what was the thought process.
Those are the facts, whether you believe them or not. These are undisputed. Because it's fresh in the memory, I think most agree he directly manipulated the result on Sunday. There were other very questionable decisions against us, like that Shittu goal, the Arsenal home match where we lost 3-1, Derby away in a 2-2 draw, Everton away when we were leading 2-1, he gives them a soft penalty which Foster saved, then a soft freekick in injury time which they score from. It's all objective, and there are some people who will always try to deny this, but there are far too many things to have gone against us for there not to be something a bit underhand going on here.
I'm with you on the 'unconscious bias', but it was extreme on Sunday. I was at the game and it was obvious from very early on that all the near 50/50 decisions - free kicks, corners, throw-ins - were going to Arsenal. In fact it was nineteen and a half minutes before any decision went our way at all when a free-kick was awarded and was cheered to the rafters.
Yep, sadly we will always get cases where the unconscious bias swings wildly against us. But look how many penalties we got last season that were perhaps dubious - I dare say the fact we were probably seen as a PL club helped us out. None of what I have said is excusing Kevin Friend on Sunday. He put in one of those totally inept performances that you get once every 3-4 seasons where barely even one decision was right. We expect bad refs a fair bit every season - but it’s rare you get one that is just laughably bad from minute 1 to 90.
I’ve always thought that Rob Styles refereed that Hull game. ****adoodledo. That decision to disallow Shittu’s goal is up there with the ghost goal as one of the worst ever decisions I’ve witnessed.
The thing is, I can think of at least three dodgy penalties we’ve got against big 6 sides over recent years. All of those impacted the result. Those aren’t part of this study obviously. The truth is, that with the exception of maybe two, all English referees are just awful.
VAR is checking this................................... .......................................... .......................................... .......................................... .......................................... .......................................... .......................................... Agreed.
