‘doing Business Properly…’

I don't think Chalobah would have been 'the answer' or have a great impact on the situation we find ourselves in - I think he would have had some small impact, possibly we don't lose a point or two in games we otherwise did, such as when we played Kucka for 90 minutes plus against Spurs and he cost us/we cost ourselves points as a direct result.

As you say, it's all opinion, but I don't really see how you could be of the belief that he would be no better than Cleverley, for one, given the performances that Cleverley has served up this season. As I've said, he's nowhere near proven and he wouldn't be the player I brought in to save us/elevate the team as a transfer - but we wouldn't have been doing that - he was a senior player that we owned, a leader in the dressing room, and we released from a contract for free, inexplicably (especially given our historic allergies to event contemplating the very idea of a player not having at least six years left on their deal at any point in time).

I also wouldn't draw the same definite conclusions as you from not getting into a Fulham side that are flying like almost no other side in the Championship has, and competing with an established midfield that includes Jean Michel Seri. I'm not saying he's absolutely brilliant despite that, but again, there are so many intangibles with any player and squad, and plenty of decent to good players have been excluded from squad for prolonged periods of time for seemingly no reason other than 'they're not good enough' only to come in and suddenly become that team's great saviour - our very own Imran Louza, for just one example very close to home. It is also possible he might have been able to elevate his game in our squad this season, playing in the Premier League. It's not like he hasn't done it competently enough in the past. All conjecture though, of course, as ever.

The point is he's just a small thread in the rich tapestry that is The Stability and the way they run the club/the decisions they make these days. I think Hughes would have been a more impactful player to hang on to, for one (let's not get into that) but I don't see how it's even possible to be of the opinion that you'd rather have got rid of Chalobah and brought in Tufan, say, as we did, given the choice in hindsight.

 

I think Clevs is awful but on the whole outperformed Chalobah last season. Don’t you think your point about stability would apply to Clevs equally if not more than Chalobah? Which I think undermines what seems a very reasonable point generally

I had a wistful moment thinking about Chalobah a few days ago and then I search ‘Chalobah FFC’ on Twitter and he is not rated over there.

 

"The Stability" is what that joker Duxbury coins himself and Pozzo these days when challenged about manager churn.

 

I thought the stability was Cathcart.

 

I was going to say that in response to Chumlax who seems insistent that Chalobah would have done better, but you beat me to it.

Maybe Chalobah has a style though that is better suited to the Premier League than Cleverley, who seems to have a lower ceiling (the 32-year-old version anyway)?

 

Yeah, @Jumbolina has helpfully pointed out the distinction between stability and The Stability for me, so I think it's fair to say the reasonable point is not undermined?

On the whole, Cleverley probably did outperform Chalobah last season, although they were both essentially integral parts of that starting XI that, when finally forced upon Xisco, responded with our best form of the campaign - I did far more than strongly allude to Chalobah's performance last season and my awareness of it in my post, I think, as well as why Chalobah might well have performed better this season (or at least been more useful) than Cleverley, even taking that into account.

To acknowledge @LondonOrn and his point as well - again, I think I did allude to this at the very least in my comment - Cleverley has mostly been a disaster this season, and a large part of it is because he's so off the pace he can't keep up and he gets sloppier and sloppier in his passing and touch as a result. This is not something that we would have logically expected from Chalobah as a player entering the prime years of his career, and it's not like we can be talking about the 'step up' and whether he'd make it or not, because, once again, however much he's proven or not (he hasn't) with the relatively small sample size, he has at least performed competently in the Premier League for multiple games over the course of his time with us.

I'm also not sure, with the benefit of hindsight, how much of a rod to beat him with we can really craft from not being able to displace a midfield two of Doucoure and Capoue during his top-level career with us - how many central midfielders would have managed it? Certainly none of the ones we currently own even come close (you might imagine Louza is the single potential answer, but he certainly isn't anywhere near it yet and only time will tell on that one).

Thinking back across all the times we played a central midfield with no one defensive, and yet also no one intelligently attacking, this season, I find it very hard to imagine that Natty wouldn't have had some kind of impact on that and given us greater ability to vary our play, even if just to actually protect our defence - you believe Kucka is a better ballwinner, and fairplay to that, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he is better at screening the defence in general, or providing a first line before them to help slow opposition attacks. There are many entire games where whoever we have been playing have had the freedom of the park to come through our lines and onto us as many times as they like this season, and, particularly again with the benefit of hindsight, we surely cannot say that he wouldn't have been useful to have in those circumstances?

 

Chalobah was one of a number of crap players that we have got rid of/still need to get rid of, and I'm delighted he's now wasting the money of another club. Don't even want to think about how much we paid him to not play/play poorly.

 

You're thinking of 'the stable' there, I think.

 

It’s almost as if he quite rightly knew he was better than us, wasn’t going to be offered a competitive contract (we save those for 32+ year olds) but still gave his all and was happy to stay another year to see his contract out. Then the club forced him out to recoup as much cash as they could, then produced spin through its cronies that he was a bad egg and wasn’t even that good etc

I’m continuously surprised that so many fall for such illogical rubbish (“he’s not even very good”) despite the clear evidence they’ve witnessed with their own eyes. But then I look at Russia and realise just how gullible and easily misled so many people are.

 

It’s what the fanbase has become. There’s enough of them on here. Whole threads dedicated to how Will Hughes wasn’t good enough, was never going to play for Palace and that Kucka and Tufan were better. I don’t need to tell you who the ringleaders were, the forum sages who like to claim they predict a signing by exhaustively listing any player they can think of. Yet they believe their opinion still matters. LOL

 

I wholeheartedly agree with your overall viewpoint, please don’t think I don’t.

But the problem was (and I’ve alluded to it on many a thread, and even said it outright a few times even if people still choose not to believe me - as is their right, I will say)…the contract we offered was very competitive. 60k for 5 years is huge for us….

…but he was clear all along with the club. He wouldn’t sign for 5yrs. He wanted no more than 3 years and the club weren’t having it. It had zero to do with him thinking he was too good, his agent wanting a payday or relegation clauses. He wasn’t interested in Newcastle and was happy to stay. But the club wouldn’t budge from 5years, and Palace, under Vieira, eventually firmed up their interest.

Hughes departure is all on the club as far as I am concerned.

 

Interesting to think from Hughes viewpoint. He wanted a contract till 29ish and then one more payday rather than be tied down till 31? 60k per week for 5 years seems a nice proposition to a 26 year old I would have thought.

 

At the same time, signing a 5-year contract at 26 puts him pretty squarely in Kane/Zaha territory (at far lesser sums and with less impact, yes; obviously). He has basically no control over his own destiny for the rest of the prime of his career if he signs, and unlike those aforementioned two, he wouldn't even be doing it for increasing astro-sums - purely for a stability that he can pretty much count on getting regardless.

Will Hughes the player, at this point, is not about to have to drop down to League One on three grand a week at any point in the near future, so there's no great benefit to him signing his life away - and, if he did have doubts about the direction of the club with the benefit of his internal view (that seem to have been entirely borne out) then there's even less reason to sign up with no wiggle room.

 

Except it would have been £60k/w for 1 year and £30k a week for 4 years.

 

May not even be that expensive. If the relegation clause works properly, surely it’d be £60k/wk for 1 year, £30k/wk for 1 year, £15k/wk for 1 year, £15k/wk for 33 weeks, then we do a Bury and avoid the rest?

 

Hughes back on the bench for Palace. Decent player, I like the type of player he is, but he'll never be any more than an average PL midfielder. Don't think he'd have been the difference between staying up and going down, and if our finances are as dire as some predict, surely it wasn't the worst idea to secure £8m(?) for a player that clearly wasn't *that* fussed about staying.

Replacing him with a Turkish lump is another issue.

 

Agreed. Trouble is being able to field a team of “average PL players” is our El Dorado.

 

We don't have a central midfielder that can chip in with a few goals at this level (like Doucoure did) which would've been an important component in survival.
Chalobah and Hughes wouldn't have helped with that situation imo.

 

Show some respect to the 1 goal and 3 assists that Will Hughes guarantees you every season

 

Sissoko is becoming the goalscoring midfielder I always knew he'd be.

 

Yes, I'm no expert but the interaction between defence and midfield is hugely important. I played CB sometimes and had an arrogant CM who always dropped off deep then might put in a tackle 10 feet in front of me, turned and snarled at me for not getting stuck in.. I kept telling him to stop playing like a defender and get a grip on midfield, but he just wouldn't have it as he was the glory boy.....